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Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction |
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:26 |
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I suppose I should have noticed this before after 50 odd years of listening to this song, but I've just realised that one hand Peter is saying -
"Strike by night! They are defencelessThey all need the sun to photosensitize their venom" and next minute he says "Still they're invincible Still they're immune to all our herbicidal battering"So which is it Peter? First you suggest we just have to show up at night with flamethrowers to wipe them out, then you're saying they're still invincible. I mean, they can't be both defenceless and invincible, so which is it Peter?
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JD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18438 |
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Context brother. These are the ramblings of villagers who don't know 5hit about anything. First, they state and then they maintain the assertion that the weeds are 'invincible', that doesn't change. The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'. And at the end of the day, the Hogweed emerges victorious. So Peter was right on with his story.
Edited by JD - January 18 2022 at 13:42 |
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Hrychu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 4429 |
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Good point. BTW have you noticed the phrase "Mighty Hogweed is avenged, human bodies soon will know our anger..." and so on, was, like, recorded using varispeed to achieve a deeper voice?
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Heart of the Matter ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3022 |
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Peter wasn't playing a man of science with a theory, he's more like the voice of desperate men who first think we have a chance, and then see that that's not the case.
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Cosmiclawnmower ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3082 |
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As far as im aware the song is a satire based on 'Day of the Triffids' but using the (actually very current) concern of the times (Victorian then again in the 60's/early 70's) regarding 'foreign' introductions of plants which might 'escape' our gardens and take over the countryside.. Giant Hogweed hasn't proven to be quite as 'invasive' as Japanese Knotweed or Himalayan Balsam but it does have some herbicidal resistance and though it tends to be monocarpic it produces a lot of viable seed. Like many of the larger umbellifers (including Hemlock and even Parsnip foliage) it has chemicals in its sap which if in contact with the skin, can cause severe blisters and burns when exposed to sunlight.
I'm sure most Genesis fans know the origins of this song but as a botanist and horticulturalist all i can say is that Peter is pretty accurate and its no surprise he has showed a fair bit of interest in Gardening in his own life
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Online Points: 10425 |
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^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu.
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Sacro_Porgo ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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I always thought "strike by night..." was the plan of how they thought they could defeat the hogweed, but then when they try to do that they are surprised to find "still they're invincible..."
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Cosmiclawnmower ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3082 |
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Yep.. its not something we have to deal with in the UK but i can see its no laughing matter..
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Online Points: 10425 |
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Manuel ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12521 |
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This is also my take on this.
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Mascodagama ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
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The question in my mind is why nobody on this forum uses Giant Progweed as a handle.
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
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Cosmiclawnmower ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3082 |
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Maybe its not thought out properly but the idea of them being 'defenseless' at night comes from the fact that in 'real' giant hogweed (and many other umbellifers) the chemical irritant in their sap only creates burns and blisters when the skin which came into contact to it is exposed to the sun; hence 'They all need the sun to photosensitize their venom'.. PG has just raised this to 'day of the triffid' proportions. There were real hysterical horror stories in the early 70's about what effect contact with giant hogweed would do to you- it is nasty stuff but whilst ive only had very very minor skin irritation from them one chap i know put a strimmer into one and ended up in hospital, nearly lost his sight and was quite moderately scarred for life on face, hands and arms!
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Cosmiclawnmower ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3082 |
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Ive been looking a lot on line and doing a bit of research and i can see it REALLY is no laughing matter
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JD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18438 |
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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Hang on, you said these villagers were thick as sh*t.
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JD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18438 |
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Frenetic Zetetic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Invincible could have also been hyperbole for effect. You know, just like giant weed monsters in general. PROG!!!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Boojieboy ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 02 2016 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 606 |
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The Hogweed are strongest during the day, when they recharge and strengthen themselves by sun and photosynthesis.
Striking by night would be when they are weakest. They're weak and defenseless without sun and photosynthesis. Makes complete sense.
Edited by Boojieboy - January 24 2022 at 16:17 |
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chopper ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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Well I was joking but my point was after saying they're defenceless he says they're still invincible. That's the contradiction.
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