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Early 90's Technical Death Metal Showdown
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Poll Question: Pick your favorite
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [9.09%]
5 [22.73%]
10 [45.45%]
5 [22.73%]
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 10066 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 09:51
I like Cynic the least out of these and prefer the rest on their earliest albums - when they were still relatively straight forward Death Metal. I guess i just want my Death Metal to be Death Metal. The technical part is ok, but I tend to look elsewhere than in metal for progressive/experimental music. Voted for Gorguts
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I agree. Cynic isn't really death metal. They carry elements of it, but it's blended into something completely different.


Their debut has been classified as technical death metal and progressive death metal, both are fine IMO. 

I'll reclassify it as Progressive Extreme Metal Smile
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 41545 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:21
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I agree. Cynic isn't really death metal. They carry elements of it, but it's blended into something completely different.


Their debut has been classified as technical death metal and progressive death metal, both are fine IMO. 

I'll reclassify it as Progressive Extreme Metal Smile

You mean extreme progressive metal? That includes progressive death metal. LOL 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:28
Yes, extreme metal includes death metal, but not the other way round. And yes, it makes more sense to order the words like you did, but I recently introduce Extreme Metal as a genre at AP (due to popular request), and when you add "prog" to it the badge gets created as "Prog Extreme Metal". I'll work on tweaking that ...
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Logan View Drop Down
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^ ^^ As opposed to extremely progressive metal, which can be its own thing.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:34
^ Yes - annoyingly, my tag system supported that as well (you could set the progressiveness level to 10 and then it would say "extremely progressive"), but I removed that feature long ago. LOL
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 41545 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:35
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Yes, extreme metal includes death metal, but not the other way round. And yes, it makes more sense to order the words like you did, but I recently introduce Extreme Metal as a genre at AP (due to popular request), and when you add "prog" to it the badge gets created as "Prog Extreme Metal". I'll work on tweaking that ...

Extreme metal is an umbrella as it includes several subgenres. 
For example the technical/extreme progressive metal genre tag on PA includes bands that play progressive black, death or thrash. And not just on PA. 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:36
^ So what's wrong with assigning this more general genre to releases that can't really be attributed to a specific subgenre?
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Logan View Drop Down
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Points: 32899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:41
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Yes - annoyingly, my tag system supported that as well (you could set the progressiveness level to 10 and then it would say "extremely progressive"), but I removed that feature long ago. LOL


I remember that feature. I liked it.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:45
^ It's still there in the background, I might introduce a user setting to reactivate it. Wink

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - January 10 2024 at 13:46
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Logan View Drop Down
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Points: 32899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:48
^ Cool, and "extremely extreme progressive metal" has an epically excessive ring to it. :)
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ So what's wrong with assigning this more general genre to releases that can't really be attributed to a specific subgenre?

like what?! Confused
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:53
^ Like Cynic - Focus, which isn’t really Death Metal.
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 41545 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 13:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Like Cynic - Focus, which isn’t really Death Metal.

How is not death metal when it's got extreme growling vocals?!

Metalstorm classifies the album as progressive death metal. 
MMA as technical death metal
Metal archives as Progressive Death Metal/Fusion

All o them are right if you ask me. Smile
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 14:21
^ Sure, there's nothing wrong with classifying them as death metal, especially when you look at it from a historical perspective - after all, they started as part of the Florida death metal scene. I just think that their music had already moved away from the typical death metal style significantly, so that I think that the more generic label "extreme metal" is a better fit. 

Let's agree to disagree. Smile
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 41545 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 14:24
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Sure, there's nothing wrong with classifying them as death metal, especially when you look at it from a historical perspective - after all, they started as part of the Florida death metal scene. I just think that their music had already moved away from the typical death metal style significantly, so that I think that the more generic label "extreme metal" is a better fit. 

Extreme metal does less justice to Cynic's debut than technical death metal or progressive death metal (both are more specific unlike the broad extreme metal). 
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Let's agree to disagree. Smile

That's what people say when they want to get rid of someone or stop discussing. LOL
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 14:34
^ I really think we DISAGREE on the question of "how death" the Cynic debut is, and we're not going to resolve that here. You pointed that on most websites it is classified as death metal, which I acknowledged. On my website there's now "extreme metal" as its own subgenre of metal, and that is not available on these other websites, afaik. In any case, I stand by my OPINION that the broader term "extreme metal" fits better, and I accept and respect your differing opinion.

What else can we do? It's either a duel with pistols, or shake hands and move on Smile
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I really think we DISAGREE on the question of "how death" the Cynic debut is, and we're not going to resolve that here. You pointed that on most websites it is classified as death metal, which I acknowledged. On my website there's now "extreme metal" as its own subgenre of metal, and that is not available on these other websites, afaik. In any case, I stand by my OPINION that the broader term "extreme metal" fits better, and I accept and respect your differing opinion.

What else can we do? It's either a duel with pistols, or shake hands and move on Smile

No site I mentioned classifies them as just "death metal", even the death metal has become a genre with subgenres. LOL 

To me things are simple, if it's got growls its in the death metal umbrella. 
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