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Topic ClosedFlash or Starcastle?
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Poll Question: Which band do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [51.43%]
17 [48.57%]
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 04:01
Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

What made you think of having a poll between Flash and Starcastle?
 
I´ve mostly told it in my first post. Plus curiosity who has more popularity on Prog Archives. To be honest, I´m disapointed that Starcastle leads.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
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Na-chaered palan-díriel
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Fanuilos, le linnathon
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 04:21
I just looked up the word 'epigone'.  Says, "a second-rate imitator or follower".  Peter Banks imitated no one.  Neither do Ray or Colin.
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 05:55
Imitators? That´ s the meaning of this thread, to judge who is so-called follower or epigon, as you list, and who is just imitator only.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 18:58
So, if the poll is who is the best "second-rate imitator" of Yes, it's good that Flash is losing!  Wink

I don't know Starcastle, but Flash and Yes were very related through personnel and background - playing and hanging out together.  Pete has always sounded like Pete - a very distinct style and sound that was a large part of the Yes sound.  You may already know that Ray and Bill Bruford were boyhood friends and played in their first band together at 15.  Ray stayed at the 'Yes flat' in London with Chris and the others, and his first wife dated Tony Kaye before Ray, and on and on.  They were all unique, adventurous musicians and they inspired each other to greater heights.  It was a very productive, creative atmosphere.  But the credo was always ORIGINALITY.  To be caught 'imitating' was the worst you could say about a musician.  Those were the days.  We could use more of that. 

Of course, I'm a big fan and I might be a bit biased, but I'm very glad to see Flash together again making music. 
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 19:08
Everyone imitates someone else.  Nothing wrong with that.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 19643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 19:13
Flash by miles; Starcastle are by no means bad, but I do feel like they're simply Yes clones. Flash are much more original and artistically creative IMO.
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 20:29
Flash has better album covers.
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 03:59
Originally posted by crimhead crimhead wrote:

Flash has better album covers.
Anyhow!
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
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o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
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Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2010 at 14:33
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Everyone imitates someone else.  Nothing wrong with that.


Yes, we all stand on the shoulders of the greats - contemporaries and those who went before us, and are inspired by them, but imitating is another thing, and hopefully is something you stop doing once you learn how to play.

I'm not a musician, and this may not be true for other people, but I've watched Ray and Colin and they spend most of their time playing and writing, very little time listening to other people as they did when they were kids. 
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Points: 41727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:03
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

 
Starcastle picture
 
Flash picture
 
Two Yes epigons. Starcastle (United States) is more Symphonic, lyrical, with keyboards and harmonic vocals.
Flash (United Kingdom), on the other hand, is more Eclectic, raw, led by expressive Rickenbacker Bass, mostly without keyboards.
 
Which band is preferred by you? I didn´t include the option "Both equally" this time.Wink

I've voted for Flash.

Neither are epigons. "Epigon" has a negative connotation as soulless imitators which neither Flash nor Starcastle were. 
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:05
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

 
 
 
 
 
Two Yes epigons. Starcastle (United States) is more Symphonic, lyrical, with keyboards and harmonic vocals.
Flash (United Kingdom), on the other hand, is more Eclectic, raw, led by expressive Rickenbacker Bass, mostly without keyboards.
 
Which band is preferred by you? I didn´t include the option "Both equally" this time.Wink

I've voted for Flash.

Neither are epigons. "Epigon" has a negative connotation as soulless imitators which neither Flash nor Starcastle were. 
You´re not right. Epigon hasn´t negative connotation. See Wikipedia.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 41727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:13
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

 
 
 
 
 
Two Yes epigons. Starcastle (United States) is more Symphonic, lyrical, with keyboards and harmonic vocals.
Flash (United Kingdom), on the other hand, is more Eclectic, raw, led by expressive Rickenbacker Bass, mostly without keyboards.
 
Which band is preferred by you? I didn´t include the option "Both equally" this time.Wink

I've voted for Flash.

Neither are epigons. "Epigon" has a negative connotation as soulless imitators which neither Flash nor Starcastle were. 
You´re not right. Epigon hasn´t negative connotation. See Wikipedia.

so is it just imitators then?

Flash are great, much more than a Yes imitators, it's got an early Yes vibe but then again Peter banks was their guitarist LOL, so...

Starcastle are Yes influenced but than again they are influenced by Styx, too. LOL
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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 09:01
Followers? Brothers in arms?
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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XTChuck View Drop Down
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Points: 407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 10:50

Tough choice for me.  Both bands had debut LP's that were fantastic.

I'll have to vote later..........
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 16490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 21:16
Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

 
Without all the sordid details, it simply wasn't possible - Pete and Mike aren't up to it.  But Ray and Colin are, and are doing what they've always done - making original, innovative music.  They wrote most of the Flash material, and are enjoying the partnership as much as ever.  And they still wear tight pants! 
 
Oh my gawd ... she is hinting at another Hipgnosis' cover? .... "still wear tight pants" ...
 
Ok ok ok ,.... joking aside ... glad to hear it and yes, I am actually looking forward to listening to this and maybe catching you guys if you are travelling up I-5 in the future.


Edited by moshkito - December 28 2010 at 21:17
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 01:36
I'll keep you posted about upcoming gigs, and you can also get on the mailing list at the Flash site for news about the new CD and tour dates.  The I-5, eh?  Ray's been talking with the owner of some Indian casino (in central California, I think) about playing there.  Wink

 http://www.reverbnation.com/flashbennettcarter
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 01:00
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Flash by miles; Starcastle are by no means bad, but I do feel like they're simply Yes clones. Flash are much more original and artistically creative IMO.


Nice, Joel!  Approve

Glad you noticed...
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:33
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:

 Two Yes epigons. Starcastle (United States) is more Symphonic, lyrical, with keyboards and harmonic vocals.
Flash (United Kingdom), on the other hand, is more Eclectic, raw, led by expressive Rickenbacker Bass, mostly without keyboards.
 
Which band is preferred by you? I didn´t include the option "Both equally" this time.Wink

I've voted for Flash.

Neither are epigons. "Epigon" has a negative connotation as soulless imitators which neither Flash nor Starcastle were. 
You´re not right. Epigon hasn´t negative connotation. See Wikipedia.


Just to be clear....we have a misunderstanding, Gandalff.  It's true, Wiktionary is the least negative.  It says -

Noun

epigone (plural epigones)

  1. A follower or disciple.
  2. An imitator of a well known artist or their style

But every other source, including the esteemed American Heritage Dictionary is negative.  They say -

American Hereitage -
n.  A second-rate imitator or follower, esp. of an artist or philosopher.


thefreedictionary.com -
Noun1.epigon - an inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician
aper, copycat, emulator, imitator, ape - someone who copies the words or behavior of another


audioenglish.net -

• EPIGON (noun)
  The noun EPIGON has 1 sense:

1. an inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician

  Familiarity information: EPIGON used as a noun is very rare.


Webster's Dictionary -

Noun 1. An inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician.


Answers.com -  The noun has one meaning:

Meaning #1: an inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician
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sherrynoland View Drop Down
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Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:37
Now that there are no remaining members of Yes in Flash (that is, one of the Yes-sound-originators, Pete Banks isn't in the band) it's pretty inevitable that Flash will sound less like Yes - perhaps nothing like Yes - so, the comparisons might finally end.

Flash also existed before progressive rock became a 'thing', so I can promise you they won't be 'imitating' progressive rock, either! 

The members of Flash have always been originators.  Like it or not, what you hear will be new and most likely, hard to categorize.  Maybe a new genre will have to be spawned...Wink

Here's one of their new tunes titled "10,000" -

First, a short live rehearsal clip.  The second video is an early mix of the complete track crudely recorded from my computer screen with my digital camera.
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