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King Crimson - Lizard (1970)

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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:13
For real though - I can't believe it's taken me this long to get into this one, guys and gals! What a prog gem in every sense of the word. I love the smoky early 70's production (you know, where you can "taste" the snare drum), to the jazz cirkus from hell themes, to the almost Zappa/Beefheart like free-jazz sections. Whatever the hell Fripp was on, it was working LOL.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:11
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

keep in mind that the album was released 1970 Dec 10th in the UK (about 3 weeks later in the US) and the Beatles broke up in 1970. all 4 members also released solo albums that year; they "blew their own canoes" (this is actually a double metaphor that also refers to their drug abuse). lots of other references to the Beatles in the lyrics, like for example "each to his revolving doors" (again a double metaphor referring to their split and their album "Revolver"), "BEAT the clock", "Sergeant mirror", "barber's win" (a reference to "Penny Lane"), "silver rolls from golden rock" (referring to their Rolls-Royces and their golden records)

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I just had an awesome post and the site deleted it when I went to reply, lmao. I'll just write my review and get it all out then!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 22:36
The thing with Lizard is that it starts out as a typical Crimson record, i.e., the tritones that open up Cirkus. And then it goes in so many directions. At the time I never cared much for Side 2...I appreciate it more now, some 40 years on, but Happy Family and Indoor Games and that initial blast that is Cirkus are pure bliss.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:32
I think it is something in between, with some mourning about their splitting-up added for good measure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:27
are they making fun of the Beatles or paying homage, or something in between?  Or is it just clever commentary

I just listened to the song and don't disdain it as much as I used to.  It's very weird, but seems like a bit of a follow on from Cat Food as far as the jazzy piano, just crazier.  I don't really care for the vocal melody or meter at all but it is out there, which I have more appreciation for than I used to




Edited by kenethlevine - January 11 2020 at 12:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:23
I don't consider the lyrics to be vague. Don't forget they are by Pete Sinfield, so you have to expect some odd metaphors. But the references are obvious; Jean listed a few of them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 12:16
The lyrics are a bit vague but the Beatles aspect on the cover art is well known and has been written about many times over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 10:19
I find the lyrics very vague but I take your word for it. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 10:06
keep in mind that the album was released 1970 Dec 10th in the UK (about 3 weeks later in the US) and the Beatles broke up in 1970. all 4 members also released solo albums that year; they "blew their own canoes" (this is actually a double metaphor that also refers to their drug abuse). lots of other references to the Beatles in the lyrics, like for example "each to his revolving doors" (again a double metaphor referring to their split and their album "Revolver"), "BEAT the clock", "Sergeant mirror", "barber's win" (a reference to "Penny Lane"), "silver rolls from golden rock" (referring to their Rolls-Royces and their golden records)


Edited by BaldJean - January 11 2020 at 10:11


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 09:24
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one.

Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge.

I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back...

Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES!

As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here.

the Beatles even appear on the album cover, including Yoko Ono who appears as a ghost out of a bottle held by John Lennon

left to right: George Harrison alias Cousin Silas, Paul McCartney alias Brother Judas, Yoko Ono as ghost out of the bottle, John Lennon alias Nasty Jonah and Ringo Starr alias Uncle Rufus

Great detective work Jean regarding the identities. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 05:12
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one.

Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge.

I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back...

Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES!

As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here.

the Beatles even appear on the album cover, including Yoko Ono who appears as a ghost out of a bottle held by John Lennon

left to right: George Harrison alias Cousin Silas, Paul McCartney alias Brother Judas, Yoko Ono as ghost out of the bottle, John Lennon alias Nasty Jonah and Ringo Starr alias Uncle Rufus


This is amazing! I never noticed this! Now it can't be unseen. Thank you! Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 03:45
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one.

Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge.

I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back...

Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES!

As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here.

the Beatles even appear on the album cover, including Yoko Ono who appears as a ghost out of a bottle held by John Lennon

left to right: George Harrison alias Cousin Silas, Paul McCartney alias Brother Judas, Yoko Ono as ghost out of the bottle, John Lennon alias Nasty Jonah and Ringo Starr alias Uncle Rufus



Edited by BaldJean - January 11 2020 at 04:05


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 03:21
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one.

Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge.

I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back...

Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES!

As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here.

Dude, VdGG's Jackson puts the Crimson players to shame
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 02:21
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I can understand why someone does not like "Happy Family", but how can someone not love "Lady of the Dancing Water"? a wonderfully melancholy song with beautiful instrumentation
 

I'm just not a fan of these ballad/ballad-y type songs. Every other song has a wonderful frantic energy, which resonates very strongly with me. (I realize this type of song isn't suppose to have frantic energy and I'm sure most people enjoy the slight break.)

That said, I never skip it when listening to Lizard and do like it, but if it never existed I wouldn't be any worse off. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 01:21
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

The idiotic laughter at the end of indoor games is atrocious...even worse than the easy money one.

Dude yes thank you glad I'm not the only one! That's the only bad part of the entire album for me! I can't believe they let that go on as long as they did. They could have cut that like 25 seconds sooner. Minor smudge.

I love every track. Happy Family is super catchy with its melody. I had no clue it was about the Beatles! Happy family one hand clap, four went by and one came back...

Indoor Games might be my favorite at the moment. "Walking through the parlor in nothing but your armor." RULES!

As a fusion fan I lean towards this one a bit more. The free sax, flute, etc. reminds me of all the best parts of early VDGG on HtoHE, lots of Fusion-era Zappa noises (even though this was first); I hear lots of Waka/Jawaka-esque movements in here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2020 at 23:03
It's confused and doesn't know what it wants to be. 
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2020 at 22:51
^Well, I think it´s weakest track in Lizard, although fit very well in the end of a-side. It´s just so obvious, for example "I Talk to the Wind", "Cadence & Cascade" & "the Letters" are much more interesting melancholy songs with beautiful instrumentation. I really love "Happy Family".

Edited by Mortte - January 10 2020 at 22:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2020 at 19:42
I can understand why someone does not like "Happy Family", but how can someone not love "Lady of the Dancing Water"? a wonderfully melancholy song with beautiful instrumentation


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2020 at 18:30
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 

The only weaker points are Lady Of Dancing Waters, and the Big Top album recapitulative
 
exactly the same for me. Love the album.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2020 at 18:01
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I like it overall.  Its peak to me is the opening number "Cirkus".  Wonderful.  It's low point is definitely "Happy Family".   dreadful.  "Lady of the Dancing Water", "Prince Rupert Awakes" and "Bolero" are all really good too.

I love "Happy Family". quite a satirical song about the Beatles

my teenage self thought not of the equipment when I deliberately dragged the needle across the LP on that song.  Maybe I should revisit it now?  I did grow to like Indoor Games  
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