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Nuke
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 271
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Posted: July 23 2009 at 19:22 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Blowin Free wrote:
Silly wrote:
To my knowledge the whole middle section is free form improvisation. No musical rules apply whatsoever. What an amazing song though. |
I seriously doubt that, unless they recorded it in a full-band, which is very hard to pull-off. |
Many bands have full improv sections...
Porcupine Tree's "Metanoia" is completely improvisation, and so is their "MOONLOOP: (Improvisation)" On Sky moves Sideways DISC2 |
And besides, king Crimson has become famous for their full band improvisations. It isn't too hard to imagine they started at it right from the get go...
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 02:54 |
...and all my words come back to me, in shades of mediocrity...
To summarise my review, the structure is essentially a verse/chorus song, followed by an improvisation which recapitulates the essential nature of the song by re-interpreting the lyrics musically.
It's utterly brilliant, and a superb example of musical onomatopoeia - but takes a very broad minded listener to appreciate it.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Greg W
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 3904
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 13:58 |
Quite simply, they recorded themselves tuning their instruments. That can be the only explanation. That whole middle part is rubbish.
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progvortex
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 14:18 |
There is no time signature to the instrumental portion of Moonchild. There is however a pulse to it. In other words, there's no set beats, but you can feel a shape to the music. I like to think of the instrumental section as a place where the band showcases unique textures and interplay between the textures. If you listen carefully, there is call and response happening. Robert Fripp plays two notes repeatedly and the vibes interject with a similar pattern. Giles plays a cymbal pattern that also compliments the riff. Think about it as a conversation between the instruments.
It is not rubbish. I don't like a lot of avant garde music, but Moonchild will give me chills every time.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 14:20 |
Yeah, like the chills you get after throwing up in a toilet in the early hours of the morning.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 15:00 |
Don't let narrow taste interfere with exploring wider musical avenues - after all, challenging music is what Prog is all about, not simple blues scale noodling and repetitive riffs.
If you don't understand Moon Child, take a bit of time to try - once you do, it not only makes more sense, but comes alive in an almost literal sense.
You don't have to like it - just understand why it was composed that way before dissing it, then you can diss it in an informed manner.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: July 24 2009 at 15:11 |
I like it personally. It has grown on me with time. I hated it at first on vinyl, it is so quiet and all the crackling and popping......aaaahh!
But now...calm! 
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: July 25 2009 at 13:28 |
Greg W wrote:
Quite simply, they recorded themselves tuning their instruments. That can be the only explanation. That whole middle part is rubbish. |
Quite simply, his pet must have been walking on the keyboard of his computer. That can be the only explanation. The whole quoted post is rubbish.
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Greg W
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Joined: August 24 2004
Location: Chicago
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Posted: July 26 2009 at 01:21 |
Its called a joke, buddy!
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
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Posted: July 26 2009 at 02:02 |
^Trouble is, it's difficult to see it as a joke, since some people really do think it sounds a touch on the random side, unbelievably...
The secret of great comedy is...
Timing.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 3491
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Posted: July 26 2009 at 05:26 |
I always loved the whole song yust as much as the rest of the album, i think the improvisation is very good and beautiful done. It always reminds me of hot summer days lying on my bed taking a nap and looking trough the window at the green garden outside...
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: July 26 2009 at 05:30 |
Blowin Free wrote:
I dunno, really. |
What he said.   And if you really think about it, you will come to the conclusion that that is what is what is what is what is really going on.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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crimhead
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Posted: July 26 2009 at 13:14 |
Write this man for all the answers. [email protected]
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progvortex
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: July 27 2009 at 21:38 |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 00:22 |
Epignosis wrote:
The final nine minutes of "Moonchild" is a blight on an otherwise fine album.
Improvisation is one thing...doing something a horde of crippled six-year-old could do is quite another.
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I love Moonchild, especially those nine minutes. Best part of the album. Seriously! Actually that seemingly unstructured part is indeed very well structured; the lyrics are totally reflected in that part. Example: The very end of Moonchild, where something like a melody comes up, is "the smile from a sunchild", in other words: The sun rises. Immediately before that you can hear the Moonchild play "hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn". If you take the lyrics sentence for sentence you will find that each line has a counterpart in that instrumental section.
Edited by BaldFriede - July 28 2009 at 00:26
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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DangerousCurves
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Joined: July 07 2009
Location: Plymouth, Devon
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Points: 43
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 08:42 |
I must admit that I have always found Moonchild good to start with but then descending into what seemed to me, rather pointless meanderings, spoiling what for me what is a wonderful album otherwise.
However, after what you people have said about it as regards to the lighting and how it backs up what has been sung already, I am going to have to give it another listen!
It was incedently, the first King Crimson song I ever heard.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 11:08 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I love Moonchild, especially those nine minutes. Best part of the album. Seriously! Actually that seemingly unstructured part is indeed very well structured; the lyrics are totally reflected in that part. Example: The very end of Moonchild, where something like a melody comes up, is "the smile from a sunchild", in other words: The sun rises. Immediately before that you can hear the Moonchild play "hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn". If you take the lyrics sentence for sentence you will find that each line has a counterpart in that instrumental section.
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My feelings exactly! 
Certif1ed wrote:
...the little major chord on the guitar clearly showing the "smile from the sun child" - all music from this point has this upbeat feel of morning approaching and the darkness lifting.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 11:19 |
Certif1ed wrote:
...the little major chord on the guitar clearly showing the "smile from the sun child" - all music from this point has this upbeat feel of morning approaching and the darkness lifting.
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...and creatures waking up, flowers opening?
Edited by Snow Dog - July 28 2009 at 11:21
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 11:27 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The final nine minutes of "Moonchild" is a blight on an otherwise fine album.
Improvisation is one thing...doing something a horde of crippled six-year-old could do is quite another.
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I love Moonchild, especially those nine minutes. Best part of the album. Seriously! Actually that seemingly unstructured part is indeed very well structured; the lyrics are totally reflected in that part. Example: The very end of Moonchild, where something like a melody comes up, is "the smile from a sunchild", in other words: The sun rises. Immediately before that you can hear the Moonchild play "hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn". If you take the lyrics sentence for sentence you will find that each line has a counterpart in that instrumental section.
| Yes, but that doesn't mean I want to subject myself to it.
And I am not at all convinced that all these lovely interpretations are objectively valid (poor adverb, but I cannot think of another); in other words, I am not convinced that there was any intent on the part of King Crimson to make the nine minute improvisation a reflection of the lyrics. I tend to think these interpretations are all drummed up to make something nonsensical make sense.
Happens quite often, really.
Edited by Epignosis - July 28 2009 at 11:31
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progvortex
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 12:55 |
Epignosis wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The final nine minutes of "Moonchild" is a blight on an otherwise fine album.
Improvisation is one thing...doing something a horde of crippled six-year-old could do is quite another.
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I love Moonchild, especially those nine minutes. Best part of the album. Seriously! Actually that seemingly unstructured part is indeed very well structured; the lyrics are totally reflected in that part. Example: The very end of Moonchild, where something like a melody comes up, is "the smile from a sunchild", in other words: The sun rises. Immediately before that you can hear the Moonchild play "hide and seek with the ghosts of dawn". If you take the lyrics sentence for sentence you will find that each line has a counterpart in that instrumental section.
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Yes, but that doesn't mean I want to subject myself to it.
And I am not at all convinced that all these lovely interpretations are objectively valid (poor adverb, but I cannot think of another); in other words, I am not convinced that there was any intent on the part of King Crimson to make the nine minute improvisation a reflection of the lyrics. I tend to think these interpretations are all drummed up to make something nonsensical make sense.
Happens quite often, really.
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I agree. This notion that the instrumental portion of Moonchild is anything more than just music holds no validity. However, I don't mean to say that I don't enjoy Moonchild. I think that musically it is valid; the timbre of the instruments and interactions between the players is truly amazing to my ears. BUT.... even so, I will admit that Moonchild can not stand alone. To me, Moonchild is a sort of dreamy hallway leading to the triumphant Court of the Crimson King. The hallway alone holds no grand significance, but just the thought of what comes at the end of the hall is what raises the hair on the back of my neck.
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