Canterbury & Its Key Albums |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12805 |
Topic: Canterbury & Its Key Albums Posted: February 22 2005 at 08:58 |
The new progression rock subsectioning here appears to be showing some limitations. As a tool and guide to newcomers, some of the the 10 key albums listed in the Canterbury section are most debatable. Where for instance, is Soft Machine, especially when a relatively obscure Italian prog album by Picchio Dal Pozzo heads that list??????????????? - the last Italian presence in Canterbury was in the 5th century AD? Further, the systems seems to suffer inflexibility: for instance why isn't Soft Machine registered in both Canterbury and the Fusion sections? One of my several reasons for sign up to Progarchives early last year, was the indications then that this website was becoming a valid source of information in all things prog. However, now the "10 key albums" sections, at least, are not currently reflecting the usual checks and measures normally used to determine key albums. How can an open-minded, ready-to-learn newcomer really identify 10 key albums of any of the sub-genre to listen to and get a good idea of the cross-section of the musical available there? If I had discovered Prog Archives in the last week, and sampled what it had to offer through its webpages, I would have left laughing my head off at such strange listings and not come here again. Many of the systems used here need some severe tweaking: the credibility is slipping. |
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Joren
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 07 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 09:07 |
Max could make a larger list. Or include 1 album maximum per band... That way there would be a Soft Machine album in the list again I think the system works pretty well... the problem is just that, if you use ratings, you also use ratings from people who don't know much about the genre or dislike certain bands... that's probably why Soft Machine fell out of the list... |
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maani
Special Collaborator Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:03 |
Dick: Please make sure to PM Max about this. It seems important enough for something to be done. Peace. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19747 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:08 |
I think that Picchio was in because there are bands that are musically similar to Canterbury outside Britain. Holland's Supersister , Belgium's Cos , Germany's Brainstorm (often cited as but not that much IMHO) and Italy's Picchio. But I am not Max or Ronny. You are right about Soft Machine being Canterbury and I had started an idfea about groups being into two sub-genre to fit better the description. Ex: Is Floyd's DSOTM to be considered a space/experimental album because the early Floyd albums were so? |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:10 |
HA HA, Picchio dal Pozzio kinda blows away the
whole Canterbury scene. Thats great if you think you want Canterbury why not blow it all off and go for the French scene which really blows Canterbury away. And why no moaning and crying and second checking everything that is French. You cats are the only ones I know of that go to the box and keep covering the same pile of poop! The english are always laying claim to Picchio because it is dedicated to Robert Viatti. Thats kind of like the US laying claim to the Rolling Stones because of Muddy Waters. You already have RIO which I am sure will be dominated by english bands. You will fill up the Fusion section with english bands, You have created a special section for english fusion, Canterbury. And when given the chance to offer France an area, maybe Art Rock you dump everything english into it with Rush! Guess my days are numbered, cant seem to take much more. Wish you would offer a more inviting avenue to our European neighbors. Edited by DallasBryan |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 11:44 |
I think the whole point is what was heard around the world and for the most part it was from Dick, I have found M@x to be most receptive if you make the right argument. I also think that you should PM him first before posting. Just MHO
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 11:57 |
I started back in the mid to late 70s with European
progressive music. I was surrounded by musicians, sound techs, roadies, producers and promoters. We spent most weekends bringing out new stuff from all over the world and exposing one another to it. Thats where it started and my interests have come and gone with time. I protest because there is plenty of back patting going on already and wish to expose others to the various contributors out there. You may think England as the major influence in progressive rock but the US, France, Italy and Germany each influence as much as England. Though many of those cultures do not speak english and therefore go unrepresented as a whole. If the chains are loosed you will see a silent majority step forth and open up a much more interesting dialog and new interested members being more diverse in their approach. Edited by DallasBryan |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 12:08 |
All my point was is exposure. See what it took you to get informed? I mean I was average high school kid back then. Information was not so free. You want us to be open to the fact that this music was influential. OK then write it out in a comprehensive time line showing excatly what your talking about. If bands from France influenced the rest of the world then show it. At the same time why don't write about all the progressive bands in the US that never got signed during the early 70's. (There were four in my little area alone in Southern California that were pretty damn good.) You are right I think that they didn't do outside of their native countries because of the language issue. Which is why British bands were more successful in the states.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 12:55 |
Bryan is right, picchio dal pozzo features among the best canterburyan efforts, even if it's italian.
A blend of Gong/you with Rock bottom influences... And yes, France, Germany and Italy are as important as UK. (but Italy, despite the profusion of bands is a little less good than German school and France). Any way, if prog is virtually totally european (except zappa),US psyche is the ancestor of prog... |
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greenback
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 14 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3300 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 13:14 |
dick, i think you are too severe! a list 10 key albums is always arguable and if we asked you to make such a list, then many would have disagreed. the list is excellent, and yes soft machine - 3 could have been chosen. Personally, i would have chosen robert wyatt - rock bottom instead of 3 caravan albums. but you have to admit this list is a real good and representative one!
Edited by greenback |
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
Posted: February 22 2005 at 13:43 |
[QUOTE=DallasBryan] DB - to find out how English dominated RIO was, go to www.ccutler.com and click on the bands link. There's an informative article there by the man who started the whole thing off. As for the English 'claiming' Picchio Del Pazzio, who claimed them, and when? Specific quotes, please, with links if possible. 'Canterbury' is a style label, not a geographically specific location. Just as there are musicians all over the world playing New Orleans jazz, few of whom were born on the same continent as New Orleans, so there are musicians all over the world playing Canterbury rock, from the USA (the Muffins) to Japan (Ain Soph). |
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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