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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
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Topic: Genesis vs Renaissance Posted: February 21 2018 at 12:53 |
Ge naissance!
Genesis.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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miamiscot
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 13:13 |
I really like Renaissance. (My favorite LP by them is Novella.)
I love Genesis.
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Dopeydoc
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Joined: September 05 2016
Location: France
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 15:36 |
Genesis
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maryes
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Posted: October 01 2017 at 06:59 |
Two of my favorite symphonic prog bands , however GENESIS is superior !!!
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
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Posted: September 30 2017 at 12:35 |
"both" makes it an easy vote.
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symphonicman
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Location: Sweden
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Points: 114
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Posted: August 24 2015 at 19:03 |
Both.
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Master James of St. George. Of the fields and the sky. He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood. But lines get broken down.
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Disparate Times
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Joined: July 12 2015
Location: Rust belt
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Points: 261
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Posted: August 19 2015 at 02:57 |
A part of me wanted to go with renaissance but guitar drums and lyrics are in heavy favor of Genesis here but i do adore renaissance so i went with both.
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 13:57 |
A lop sided poll, but I'll go for both then!
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Michael678
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Joined: June 02 2013
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 08:04 |
Genesis BY FAR!!!!!! .......BUT, i'm probably just as interested in Renaissance's music as you are. i listened to their Scheherazade album not long ago and i was impressed. one of these days maybe i'll listen to more of their stuff.
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Progrockdude
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Flight123
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Joined: September 01 2010
Location: Sohar, Oman
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Points: 1399
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:05 |
If you put their 1978 albums head to head, then Renaissance would win - but after that they went the way of many of their prog contemporaries still soldiering on, including Genesis (simplification, pop mush, etc.)
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Imperial Zeppelin
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:05 |
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"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."
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fudgenuts64
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2013
Location: NY
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Points: 470
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 06:50 |
Both bands are dear to me - I voted both. Genesis is usually favorite, but Renaissance is always second. Few bands have so many albums that are all genuinely good in terms of what I like.
Edited by fudgenuts64 - August 18 2015 at 06:52
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Green Shield Stamp
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Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
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Posted: August 18 2015 at 03:09 |
Renaissance = pleasant folk rock with proggy elements (I always thought they were like a proggy version of Steeleye Span). Annie Haslam's vocals have that mannered folk style (not unlike Maddy Prior) which I find a little grating over the course of a whole album. In terms of prog rock, they are a minor side-show - interesting, but of little consequence. Genesis = prog rock brilliance. One of the truly great bands in the history of popular music.
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Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic....
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 23:03 |
Thanks!
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7946
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:55 |
rogerthat wrote:
I meant the part about sighting their sights lower more in terms of how progressive their tracks were (or weren't). While they did use orchestra, a lot of the orchestral interludes were banal or went absolutely nowhere. Running Hard is exhibit A. The fact that Annie could easily compensate for the lack of orchestra by vocalising those parts suggests they weren't THAT complex (which is not to say you should try this at home). If say you compare Dancing with the Moonlit Knight with Running Hard or just about any song off Cards, the instrumental passages on the former are way more interesting. At least for me they are and I don't think I am alone there, probably even micky would agree. Ren did finally get more progressive on Novella but again dragged down Can You Hear Me with a very boring interlude. They got it right on Song for All Seasons but had already begun to introduce a more 'commercial' element in their music. So in that sense, they lacked ambition compared to Genesis imo. Even the dreary Wind and Wuthering has some passages of shimmering brilliance. What is often said in Ren's defence is they were more vocal oriented and hence the instrumental passages were underplayed. But if that were the case, they wouldn't have been writing 10-12 minute tracks at all and in any case an interesting interlude can support a singer a lot better than a boring one. Long story short, I don't think they were as talented but played well to their strengths and with the occasional bout of resentment relied on their trump card to carry the day.
Re consistency, yeah, overall PF were the most consistent and because they had already crossed over in the 70s, they also aged more gracefully. The worst that can be said about AMOLAD or DB is that they were terribly boring and exceedingly safe by PF standards but they never succumbed to making dated pop music. Even AMOLAD sounds very pleasant and not too 80s like. | Great post.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:32 |
I meant the part about sighting their sights lower more in terms of how progressive their tracks were (or weren't). While they did use orchestra, a lot of the orchestral interludes were banal or went absolutely nowhere. Running Hard is exhibit A. The fact that Annie could easily compensate for the lack of orchestra by vocalising those parts suggests they weren't THAT complex (which is not to say you should try this at home). If say you compare Dancing with the Moonlit Knight with Running Hard or just about any song off Cards, the instrumental passages on the former are way more interesting. At least for me they are and I don't think I am alone there, probably even micky would agree. Ren did finally get more progressive on Novella but again dragged down Can You Hear Me with a very boring interlude. They got it right on Song for All Seasons but had already begun to introduce a more 'commercial' element in their music. So in that sense, they lacked ambition compared to Genesis imo. Even the dreary Wind and Wuthering has some passages of shimmering brilliance. What is often said in Ren's defence is they were more vocal oriented and hence the instrumental passages were underplayed. But if that were the case, they wouldn't have been writing 10-12 minute tracks at all and in any case an interesting interlude can support a singer a lot better than a boring one. Long story short, I don't think they were as talented but played well to their strengths and with the occasional bout of resentment relied on their trump card to carry the day.
Re consistency, yeah, overall PF were the most consistent and because they had already crossed over in the 70s, they also aged more gracefully. The worst that can be said about AMOLAD or DB is that they were terribly boring and exceedingly safe by PF standards but they never succumbed to making dated pop music. Even AMOLAD sounds very pleasant and not too 80s like.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12610
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:22 |
About Renaissance puting their sights lower than Genesis... well I'm not sure, perhaps it depends on the point of view. Conceptually, I guess that's a given (but I don't really care for that, since I don't really like Genesis concepts anyway), on stage theatricallity, that's a given too (but once again, I don't really like Gabriel's concept of theatricallity). As for music, well, Renaissance were certainly softer, but I guess their love for orchestrating their music isn't setting their sights low at all. And about the change of sound from Selling England to The Lamb... I rather dislike The Lamb... there are some songs I do like, of course, but the new sound they got, dropping the long songs with beautiful instrumental passages, it just lost what I did like from the band.
Camel's albums from Mirage to Moonmadness were great indeed. I haven't heard the whole first album, only songs, but it seems to be nice enough too... though I guess not at the same level from those 2. After Moonmadness I lost interest, specially after listening to the songs chosen on a greatest hits album... Lunar Sea I think it was called (for I actually bought it getting confused and wanting to buy Moonmadness)... however, most of the songs presented from after Moonmadness just didn't do it for me, they had just lost their touch... and I understand that many of those songs are actually fan favorites.
About Gentle Giant, I really love their first two albums, and sort of like their next two. After that I lost them. But many like those albums from Power and the Glory and on better, so that might make a good amount of consecutive great albums for them.
However, as I had just stated, for me the one band that really gets my choice for consistency is Pink Floyd, I really like most of what they did, with some albums being really masterpiece class.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: August 16 2015 at 22:06 |
^^^ Basically, Renaissance were more consistent within albums. Not hard when they set their sights quite a bit lower than Genesis and had Annie Haslam to take care of the rest. I think of you would probably sound incredibly boring with Gabriel's vocals. But Genesis's catalog is deeper and Ivan makes a great point there. From Trespass all the way to W&W is a long stretch of good-to-great albums. When the inevitable fall happened, it was steep and swiftly sent Renaissance into ignominy where Genesis adjusted to a pop sound and carried on. For sheer consistency, maybe only Camel matched or even surpassed them but they barely changed their sound from album to album whereas from SEBTP to Lamb Lies...is quite some journey. Gentle Giant too were very consistent but far less accessible and bound to polarise listeners with their style.
Edited by rogerthat - August 16 2015 at 22:11
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12610
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Posted: August 16 2015 at 20:50 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I always said that Renaisance is the most Symphonic of the Symphonic bands, the voice of Annie es marvelous, and Live at CH is beautiful, the rest is good but too sweet sounding for m taste.
Song of Sheherezade is as good as Supper's ready (SR never been a favorite of mine)...But Renaissance mixed terribly weak songs with great ones and let's be honest, after 2 songs I'm bored.
Genesis from Trespass to TLLDOB only recorded ONE weak song (More Fool Me), the rest is simply outstanding, they didn't have a band album from Trespáss to W&W (I like it more than Trick).
Genesis is with Yes the symbol of Symphonic, no other band of the sub-genre will ever get close to them.
So Genesis it is....Ad by far.
| For me, the problem with Genesis is that they always had songs I don't like in their albums... even songs I hate. The closest they got to a perfect album for me is Selling England, and even that one has Epping Forest, which I really dislike. Reniassance, at least in the 3 albums I got (Ashes, Turn of the Cards, ans Sheherazade) don't have any song I dislike as much as many Genesis songs, plus I like Turn of the Cards better than any Genesis album, as a whole. If I put my favourite songs from each band, it becomes really difficult for me to choose which one I like better... perhaps Genesis takes the edge.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: August 16 2015 at 11:03 |
I always said that Renaisance is the most Symphonic of the Symphonic bands, the voice of Annie es marvelous, and Live at CH is beautiful, the rest is good but too sweet sounding for m taste.
Song of Sheherezade is as good as Supper's ready (SR never been a favorite of mine)...But Renaissance mixed terribly weak songs with great ones and let's be honest, after 2 songs I'm bored.
Genesis from Trespass to TLLDOB only recorded ONE weak song (More Fool Me), the rest is simply outstanding, they didn't have a band album from Trespáss to W&W (I like it more than Trick).
Genesis is with Yes the symbol of Symphonic, no other band of the sub-genre will ever get close to them.
So Genesis it is....Ad by far.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 16 2015 at 11:05
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