More Fool Me

bertburt wrote: I can't stand the song.  I think Phil's vocals are horrible on it, and I'm one of the people constantly defending him as a good singer.  The pace of the song is very irritating (the way the guitar stops and starts in curious spots).  I thought his turn on 'For Absent Friends' was pretty good, so to hear this 2 years later was a letdown.  Add to that the bland lyrics.  A 3-minute turd. IMHO, of course

My feelings exactly. I think A trick of the tail is the second-best Genesis albums, hell, I even like some of the later poppier songs for what they are (high quality radio fodder), but this one....

A friend of us calls "More Fool Me" "Awful Me" . That quite sums up what he thinks of this song.

I agree with you there, yanns, as it IS quite a good lovesong. But maybe that's just because I'm a woman. And maybe the reason why others here don't like it is because they're hardcore proggers. You see- man singing cute cute song with acoustic guitar and no time sig-change etc is DIFFERENT to an extreme variety of instruments, lyrics that are beyond the codes and conventions of "poor me- I've been used by you- but I still love you (awwww- isn't that NICE)" and all other lovesongs and differents and surprising beats/ volumes that change all the way through the song...

It's a good song for a pop-lovesong. But it's just not interesting enough- so to speak. I DO like it though. In fact it's kinda funny you bought it up because I'm trying to learn how to play it.

Fearless wrote:   Quote: Agreed. It is completely out of place. You have songs that are written extremely well with lyrics that are very extensive and than you have "More Fool Me." Okay he talks about trouble in a relationship and than says theyll make it alright, than why are you writing a song about it? If you are telling yourself its all gonna be alright its okay than just tell it to yourself, don't write a song about it on such a well written album. It does lower my score of "Selling England" just a bit. /Quote     ^This is the kind of statement that I would expect from Vh 1 or Rolling Stone.  It's okay to not like the song (of course it's personal opinion).  But it's important to understand that SEbtP is a concept album (somewhat) about the downfall of England.  The song is definately not "pointless", it is about deception.  And Collins isn't telling himself that it will be alright, he is telling his lover that it will be alright, even after she left him he still loves her.  However there are several meanings one can get from this song, but this is the easiest to explain.  It just bothers me when people ignorantly say that More Fool Me is pointless.  Even if you don't think that it fits in, it still has a point, just listen to it in the context of the album.

 

What reviews have you read, or statements from the rolling stone or VH1 that would criticize short, radio friendly songs, with a repeating chorus that would fit well with any pop station? Does Rolling Stone and VH1 praise well written lyrics (rest of album) and think that lyrics about love that every person can relate to are pointless?

I have never thought of it in context to the album because it is, in fact, almost hard to believe that it relates. I understand (sort of) the point your getting at but even if you relate More Fool Me with the album (and that is a far, far stretch) how are you relating it with the downfall of England? Do you mean that people are losing some morality in england at the time and divorce and breakups are more readily available? I'm kind of losing you here, but if you are right and it does indeed relate the the concept, I will not say it is out of place anymore and I will stand corrected.

I understand if you have a deep connection with the song and the theme (that I may be missing) but I still don't understand where the rolling stone comes in from the comment that I wrote.

Nice song, but the weakest on the album!

 

Quote:

Agreed. It is completely out of place. You have songs that are written extremely well with lyrics that are very extensive and than you have "More Fool Me." Okay he talks about trouble in a relationship and than says theyll make it alright, than why are you writing a song about it? If you are telling yourself its all gonna be alright its okay than just tell it to yourself, don't write a song about it on such a well written album. It does lower my score of "Selling England" just a bit.

/Quote

 

 

^This is the kind of statement that I would expect from Vh 1 or Rolling Stone.  It's okay to not like the song (of course it's personal opinion).  But it's important to understand that SEbtP is a concept album (somewhat) about the downfall of England.  The song is definately not "pointless", it is about deception.  And Collins isn't telling himself that it will be alright, he is telling his lover that it will be alright, even after she left him he still loves her.  However there are several meanings one can get from this song, but this is the easiest to explain. 

It just bothers me when people ignorantly say that More Fool Me is pointless.  Even if you don't think that it fits in, it still has a point, just listen to it in the context of the album.

Edited by Fearless

ivan_2068 wrote: It's boring and out of place in a Gabriel era album, maybe it's right place would be  on Invisible Touch for those who like soft adult ballads. Iván

 

Agreed. It is completely out of place. You have songs that are written extremely well with lyrics that are very extensive and than you have "More Fool Me." Okay he talks about trouble in a relationship and than says theyll make it alright, than why are you writing a song about it? If you are telling yourself its all gonna be alright its okay than just tell it to yourself, don't write a song about it on such a well written album. It does lower my score of "Selling England" just a bit.

Fearless wrote: Jim Garten wrote: [QUOTE=Fearless]Between songs, Peter usually had to change costumes at the live shows, so Phil and the others would handle vocals on one of these short songs while Peter changed (More Fool Me, For Absent Friends, Harlequin). An interesting theory, but on the Genesis 'Archives' box set, Gabriel is doing the backing vocals for More Fool Me.... mind you, he could have been doing these from backstage, whilst hopping about getting out of a frock & trying not to trip over the fox's head (there's a mental image for you). QUOTE] The backing vocals could have been a recording, or even (as you said) Peter from back stage.  This has always confused me, because Peter doesn't sing backup on the studio version (I believe it is Tony, and/or Mike).  Who know's, maybe he got changed rather quickly and decided to chip in.

There is an official video from 1973 called "Tony Smith presents Genesis". "More Fool Me" wasn`t included in the video, but Peter Gabriel sometimes changes costumes on  the back of the  stage while the band is playing an instrumental part of a song, or even he puts his "flower" on his head while singing "A flower?" in "Suppers`Ready". In "Apocalypse in 9/8" he disappears briefly during the organ solo, goes to the back of the stage, and changes costumes. The same is for the instrumental section of "The Musical Box". He did the change of costumes on stage.

Edited by Guillermo

In 1973, for the recording of their next studio album, Genesis had a break from touring for the writting of new songs. They had a hard time, because they were not very happy with the material. I have read inteviews done with the "Famous Pop Trio" (Banks/Collins/Rutherford)  on which they said that "Selling England..." was a difficult album since the songwriting period.

Banks and Gabriel didn`t like "After the Ordeal" (mainly composed by Hackett), but Gabriel didn`t like the long instrumental section in "The Cinema Show" (which consists predominantly of  keyboard solos by Banks).

They said: "The band was in a depressive state".

Collins said: "I think that my desire to start Brand X started while the making of "Selling England..." At that time I thought that I really  couldn`t  play the drums".

Collins :"Mike and me wrote "More Fool Me"".

Fortunatelly, the final product ("Selling England...") was better than they expected.

IMO too, "More Fool Me" brought a  balance to the album. A love song among a lot of  good Prog Rock music. It works in a similar way as "For Absent Friends" (also sung by Collins) and "Harlequin" in the "Nursery Cryme" album.

Edited by Guillermo

I thought of it as the weakest track on the album for a long time. But, like all prog, the more I listen to it it, the more things I find I like about it. There is always that little something that turns you onto a song at that certain time.

I find it to be a nice break in the album that gives you some time to sit back and relax to something that isn't to overly complicated yet still fits in with the rest of the works. I do like it but it really is a toss up between this and 'After the Ordeal' as weakest track on the album.