Joanna Newsom for prog folk - again!!

I'm still pissed off about Glenn Branca not getting in. I mean how the hell does Bjork get in but Glenn Branca doesn't. I mean I support Bjork being here but come on, GLENN BRANCA.

rogerthat wrote: stonebeard wrote: Tori Amos has a handful of kinda sorta progressive rock structured songs. If artists like Tori Amos, Bjork or Newsom ought to be judged by the standards of what was progressive rock in the 70s, how about judging progressive metal by those same standards?  Most prog metal additions are made by judging them to be progressive against metal standards, and not whether they are progressive rock.

I'm not talking about how prog metal is judged, and once again, I really don't care about discussing that aspect ofhe site, and seeing how it makes no consequence on my argument to ignore it, I will.

I think we would solve a lot of our problems by keeping in mind a lot of the tenets of progressive rock when evaluating new artists to add. Look, it seems to me that prog was pretty well defined in the beginning. Long-ish songs sometimes, complex compositions, lots of virtuosity going around. Pushing all sorts of boundaries. That was fine then, but music has broadened and expanded incredibly since the late 60s, into electronic music, metal, post-rock, ambient, avant-garde, and frankly I find it hard to figure out how we can stake claim to Tori Amos or Bjork. Bjork's most ambitious career turn was into electronic music, and not the insular Berlin and wherever Kraftwerk are from schools. She simply doesn't fit here unless we uselessly expand the definitions of prog to make her fit.

In the case of Tori Amos, 95% of what she writes is pop songs. Pretty simply pop songs. Clever instrumentation, sure, but we're in a sorry state if adding a synthesizer and a banjo in the same song makes someone Crossover. Which, by the way, makes no sense as a genre, and causes more trouble than it's worth.

This site is implicitly expanding the definitions of progressive music to include pop artists that progress...as pop artists. Maybe that's worth including, but there's no logical reason to avoid adding "Goa Trance" as a genre here. After all, it did progress the trance scene. (We obviously aren't playing favorites with rock music anymore [re:Bjork])

stonebeard wrote: Tori Amos has a handful of kinda sorta progressive rock structured songs.

See, this is the problem, I more or less summarized it on the previous page, there is, largely, no such thing as progressive rock after the 70s.  Most of what there is is in Avant/RIO and a handful of neo prog bands.  Extended sections don't make it prog, that was just one of the hallmarks of prog in the 70s and a more or less incidental one, imo.  If you want to say extended sections equate prog rock structure, then Rainbow, Black Sabbath or Metallica should be in Progressive Metal and not Prog Related.  If we only go by the presence of some hallmarks/elements of prog, they are definitely present in Tori Amos's music.  I would not call it prog rock but then, I would not call a lot of stuff after the 70s that's on this site prog rock and I truthfully don't understand how to decide if a band from after the 70s is prog rock as per this website's requirements.  It's all very well if you don't care about Nightwish, but they are on this website, and in prog metal and not prog related, and even if they are in a different sub-genre, they define the 'standards' of what is and what is not prog as per this website in some way; after all, it is all supposed to collectively represent prog rock.  If artists like Tori Amos, Bjork or Newsom ought to be judged by the standards of what was progressive rock in the 70s, how about judging progressive metal by those same standards?  Most prog metal additions are made by judging them to be progressive against metal standards, and not whether they are progressive rock.

I wouldn't mind seeing her in. I realize the banner says "ultimate prog rock resource", but I'd be pretty lenient on the "rock quotient" required for a category called Prog Folk if that's all that's keeping her out.

King By-Tor wrote: I can not judge whether it is actually prog or not based on the guidelines of the site.

I gave up on that pursuit long back.   After 1970s, most prog that can actually be judged to be prog without getting into whether it's experimental or weird or whatever is from the Avant/RIO/Zeuhl section.  Some early neo prog albums like Script, Lush Attic, some rare modern geniuses like Kevin Gilbert.  I find it hard to take anybody who says you can hear a prog metal album and judge it to be prog on a straight line from the 1970s seriously, I mean, you've got to be kidding me.  Music that could be judged progressive in the contemporary scene is necessarily going to be very different from what was prog in the 1970s; if anything, that's a good sign and indicates a measure of originality. 

You're right. And since I no longer have any emotion vested in the artists added to this site I think I'll just stand back and watch from a distance.



It's a shame I defiled this thread though, I do like Joanna Newsom from what I've heard. I can not judge whether it is actually prog or not based on the guidelines of the site.

[/trolling this thread]

teehee, defense mode on the interwebz is amusing.



Yeah, so I've been reduced to trolling, I'll be the first to admit that.

Marty McFly wrote: ^ That's your opinion and that's what it is, only opinion. EDIT: It's quite tiring to hear this from you over and over again. You sound like Walter now.

EVERYTHING POST 89 SUCKS AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE MUSIC FROM THERE ARE DIPsh*tS

I may sound like a broken record, but I was making an honest suggestion - recommending her for Xover would get her in.


Edited by King By-Tor - December 18 2010 at 22:47

lucas wrote: Roy Harper opened for her in Paris some months ago, and said that Joanna and himself were two pioneers of folk music.   Ys is indeed an adventurous piece of music, and if only for that album I would include her in prog-folk.

Agree for sure

Marty McFly wrote: ^ That's your opinion and that's what it is, only opinion. EDIT: It's quite tiring to hear this from you over and over again. You sound like Walter now.