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Vompatti View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 16:05
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

You cannot divide by zero. Is this because it's impossible to present the correct result for X / 0 (because there isn't any), or is it because it's logically impossible to imagine the operation you should perform to come to the correct result?
Zero, by definition, does not exist as a quantity, so division by it is not an issue. In any practical application where division by zero is potentially involved (for example if you divided a sine wave by a cosine wave) the results do not fail because true zero can never be achieved.
 
If you divide a real number by increasingly smaller real numbers such that they tend towards zero then the results will become increasingly larger and tend towards infinity, however if you divide that same number by increasingly smaller negative numbers then the results will tend towards negative infinity, so as we approach the point where these two increasingly smaller divisors meet (ie zero) the results are moving further apart by a factor of two. Since the result cannot instantaneously change sign and infinity and negative infinity are not the same value then the result of a number divided by zero is not infinity nor is it negative infinity it is simply "undefined".
 
The concept of division by zero is actually easy to imagine and depict:
The%20function%20y%20=%20.%20As%20x%20approaches%200,%20y%20approaches%20infinity%20%28and%20vice%20versa%29.
 

If zero does not exist as a quantity, it must have been defined so to avoid the confusion in dividing by zero. In any other situation zero acts just like any other number. (I could say "There are zero apples on the table" and be understood, but if I said to someone "Share these apples equally among zero people", he wouldn't understand what he's supposed to do with the apples.)

So we must ask: "Why can't we divide by zero? What makes zero different from other numbers?" (This question, I think, is somewhat similar to "Why can't there be a transparent white?")

If we could divide by zero, there would have to be one and only one result, just like with any other division. So it would have to be either infinity or negative infinity, but not both. Perhaps neither would suffice. But why do we understand the logic behind every division except division by zero? The agreement that division by zero is undefined does not solve the problem, it merely escapes it. Why can't we divide by zero?


Edited by Vompatti - September 05 2008 at 16:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 10:09
two diffcoot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 09:55
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I wanna join. What do I have to do?
Reading the first post is always a good start LOL
 
 
...not that I ever did Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 09:48
I wanna join. What do I have to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 07:41
Originally posted by dude dude wrote:

OOPS!,I think im in the wrong thread........
that is an intelligent observation, so, no you are not.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 07:38
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

You cannot divide by zero. Is this because it's impossible to present the correct result for X / 0 (because there isn't any), or is it because it's logically impossible to imagine the operation you should perform to come to the correct result?
Zero, by definition, does not exist as a quantity, so division by it is not an issue. In any practical application where division by zero is potentially involved (for example if you divided a sine wave by a cosine wave) the results do not fail because true zero can never be achieved.
 
If you divide a real number by increasingly smaller real numbers such that they tend towards zero then the results will become increasingly larger and tend towards infinity, however if you divide that same number by increasingly smaller negative numbers then the results will tend towards negative infinity, so as we approach the point where these two increasingly smaller divisors meet (ie zero) the results are moving further apart by a factor of two. Since the result cannot instantaneously change sign and infinity and negative infinity are not the same value then the result of a number divided by zero is not infinity nor is it negative infinity it is simply "undefined".
 
The concept of division by zero is actually easy to imagine and depict:
The%20function%20y%20=%20.%20As%20x%20approaches%200,%20y%20approaches%20infinity%20%28and%20vice%20versa%29.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2008 at 06:52
OOPS!,I think im in the wrong thread........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2008 at 02:35
You cannot divide by zero. Is this because it's impossible to present the correct result for X / 0 (because there isn't any), or is it because it's logically impossible to imagine the operation you should perform to come to the correct result?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 19:52
Good idea Lamp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 15:22
Maybe the bulb in question would settle for a part-time retirement? Move it to another room where the light's out during most of the day. That way you will save energy, and the bulb can still feel himself useful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 15:02
Thanks for that enlightening reply. I can confirm that the light bulb is not burnt-out and is working perfectly, but is a low-efficiency tungsten variety that the various "environmental bodies" say we must change for the new high-efficiency low-energy types. In this instance you could say that resistance to change is really fear of redundancy, since what useful employment could be found for a low-efficiency tungsten light-bulb in these energy conscious times? I have tried various Management Change models, but none of them are able to instill the desire to change in the said photon radiator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 14:51
That's certainly a tricky question. The answer depends on what you mean when you say that the light bulb doesn't want to change. There are two possible interpretations:

1. It is not so that the light bulb wants to be changed.

This also has two interpretations:

    1.1. The light bulb doesn't want to be changed, nor does it want not to be changed.
    1.2. The light bulb wants not to be changed. (This is the same as (2)).

2. It is so that the light bulb wants not to be changed.

The situation 1.1. is the easiest to solve. Since the light bulb doesn't have anything against it being changed, you can change it pretty much effortlessly. Just screw out the bulb using your hand and replace it with another one.

The situation 1.2., which is the same as 2., is a bit more troublesome. In theory you could try to change the bulb against its will and would probably succeed, because light bulbs in general have no active means to oppose external forces. But, even if it's possible to change an unwilling light bulb, it is not a moral thing to do. One could argue that if you change one light bulb against its will, you will soon develop a bad habit to change a light bulb whenever you see one. So, if you know that the light bulb doesn't want to change, it's best to leave it alone. However, I must point out that a light bulb that refuses to be changed is always a light bulb that's still working and thus doesn't need to be changed. When a light bulb burns out, it loses its ability to have opinions. So, it's always safe to change a burnt out bulb, which is, in fact, the only bulb that needs to be changed.

EDIT:
It just occurred to me that changing the light bulb could also mean modifying it somehow, not replacing it with another one. The same rules that apply to replacing a light bulb also apply to modifying it, except that there's usually no sense in modifying a burnt out light bulb, unless you're going to use it as a decoration element.


Edited by Vompatti - August 27 2008 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 13:51
how can I change a light bulb if the light bulb doesn't want to change?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 13:43
I woke up today and felt a sudden urge to solve every philosophical problem imaginable. So, if you have a question that begs to be answered, let's hear it! With my superior intelligence I can provide the answer to any sensible question in a surprisingly short time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2008 at 03:16
Originally posted by progaeopteryx progaeopteryx wrote:

Hamburgers and horses are bath-related.

Horses yes, hamburgers not quite so much (at least not for me). Horses are money-related and thus everything-related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaeopteryx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2008 at 21:59
Hamburgers and horses are bath-related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2008 at 08:34
I spent months looking for the right thread to post this in, and this is probably not it. Or maybe it is, since what follows is kind of science-related (in the same as Phil Collins is prog-related).

Anyway, I was just taking a bath and found out that an empty bottle that just recently was a non-empty bottle of shower gel can be used as an underwater cannon, volcano, fountain or whale. I had more fun than I've in ages! Then I got hungry and thought I must go for a hamburger and put some money on horses. But I think I'll take another bath today. Or maybe not today, maybe next week.

That's about it, really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heyitsthatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2008 at 02:07
I'd join but I like acting like a dumbass far too much


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Petrovsk Mizinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2008 at 02:00
Originally posted by Atomic_Rooster Atomic_Rooster wrote:

This is a thread for Intelligent people only.

As the smartest person in the universe, it falls to me to start this thread and to officially admit other people into this thread.

If you wish to be an official member of this thread, then post your 5 best characteristics so that the other members can judge you.  These should not be mental characteristics, because it is assumed that if you want to become a member of this thread, then you are already a very smart person.

If you join, you can enjoy conversing about such diverse intellectual things as: caviar, wine, classical music, how inferior other people are, and other things that might be discussed in a traditional gentleman's (or woman's) club.

List of official members so far:

JJLehto, cuncuna, rileydog22, The Miracle, The Wizard, moreitsythanyou, Arrrghus, Drew, Man Erg, Atavachron, Certif1ed, Sean Trane, Visitor13, Firepuck, andu, Ricochet, StarsongAgeless, progismylife, laplace, Syzygy, Snow Dog, magnus, Viajero Astral, king of Siam, Geck0, Vompatti, The Lost Chord, puma, MrHiccup, prog-jester, fungusucantkill


And of Course the ever amazing Atomic_Rooster



Let's see, Atomic Rooster is gone, Snow Dog, puma, MrHiccup (I think) and Ben has barely been back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2008 at 05:42

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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