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R o V e R 
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 Posted: October 20 2006 at 03:32 |
 Sasquamo wrote:
Seriously, I think John Bonham is a wildly overrated drummer. I really don't think he's that great. Does anyone agree? I don't feel like listing all of my aruguments against him until I see some real opposition. |
Hudddd 
Edited by R o V e R - October 20 2006 at 03:33
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mystic fred
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 03:28 |
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
Yes. (+ he was too keen of drinking, killed himself! with it) |
of course many rock musicians have drink like the rest of us, John suffered terribly from nerves before a big tour, and tried to relieve this with drink, unfortunately the dangers of falling asleep drunk were well documented after the death of Jimi Hendrix, who suffered the same fate.
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mystic fred
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 03:24 |
definitely NOT "overrated"......John Bonham's influence on all rock music is incalculable - technically, artistically and personally, he inspired many drummers, had his own distinctive style. i've seen him play live and he was amazing - after he tragically died his involvement in Zeppelin was so huge the group couldn't continue in the same way without him - how many other bands could this apply to? John was absolutely essential to the group, like Keith Moon was to The Who.
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 03:10 |
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It is sad that JB must be defended, though nice to see that he is being stuck up for. The assumption seems to be that he would not have been able to 'keep up' with drummers who were doing more complex things, but this is quite false. In fact, if you were to ask Bruford, Bozzio, Peart or Portnoy what they think of him, I suspect it would be kudos all around,
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enigma
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 02:58 |
enigma wrote:
He was no Peart, Herb or Carey |
Sasquamo wrote:
But people seem to think he was, hence the term "overrated." |
I understand your argument, on a pure 'technical/odd time signature' rating, there are better drummers.
My point (admittidly not very clearly made) was that he had a different
style to those guys, which doesn't make him any worse, just less flashy
but just as thrilling and effective.
In the band context he integrated very well and the fact that they
realised they could not replace him, must say something about his input
and worth.
He had a style and sound all of his own.
This does not prove anything, but is an interesting link:-
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_drummers.html
Edited by enigma - October 20 2006 at 13:28
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 02:16 |
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Yes. (+ he was too keen of drinking, killed himself! with it)
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 00:33 |
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It is inaccurate to consider John Bonham technically inferior, he was in fact just the opposite and like a great actor, didn't always show you that. Which brings me to my next point; Bonzo's greatness lay not just in his amazing chops and huge innovations, he was also *vital* to Zep's sound. Page and Plant tended to play high and thin in their attack, so with Bonham (and Jones) to provide bottom end ballast they were able to complete their sound and brought true 'bigness' to rock in a way no one else had. But the author doesn't like the band so why debate this at all?
And to say that he always played the same thing shows ignorance of his work; 'Achilles' Last Stand', 'How Many More Times', 'Poor Tom', 'Night Flight', on and on...
Edited by Atavachron - October 20 2006 at 01:49
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TheProgtologist
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 20:01 |
Sasquamo wrote:
I can hit drums hard as well |
If you don't like him you don't like him.I am not trying to change your opinion.I don't really care what you think about him. And you can hit drums hard too..good for you.But you don't have the career he did,and aren't considered a legend,like Bonham is.
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Sasquamo
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:53 |
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I can hit drums hard as well
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TheProgtologist
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:46 |
Sasquamo wrote:
enigma wrote:
He was no Peart, Herb or Carey |
But people seem to think he was, hence the term "overrated." |
Bonzo wasn't known for his technical complexity.What made him special was his power.
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Sasquamo
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:45 |
enigma wrote:
He was no Peart, Herb or Carey |
But people seem to think he was, hence the term "overrated."
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blindtoad
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:01 |
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Bonham wasn't the best drummer or even in the best but, nobody can sound like him... he was a great musician because et got is sound! I think this is the most important think to separate greats and worst musician... pat Metheny is not "technically" better than "Herman Lee" but when you listen a guitar solo from pat metheny you can't say... ErKKkK... it'S juste sounds GREAT but when you listen to Herman Lee your like on a boat in the atlantic sea... going up and down.... so... (after this little explanation) john Bonham wasn't a great "technical" or the best "never playing at the same BPM and the same time signature" drummer but he got a Great sound... and it's why he's one of the best rock(excluding prog) drummer but don't put banana with apple... it's like compare styx pianist with rick wakeman...
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quelqu'un pour un jam?
blindtoad = Poor english...
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enigma
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:00 |
chopper wrote:
He's not the most technically gifted (Ian Paice is far
better) but he just has a sound that nobody else has ever matched. Just
listen to "When The Levee Breaks" or "In My Time of Dying" - and the
two mighty tom tom hits at the end of "Custard Pie". Awesome.
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In My Time of Dying is probably my favourite Led Zep track. To me it
encapsulates in it's epic length the true definition of the word
'band'. It also happens to be my favourite slice of Bonzo.
With Bonham, it is not just the great fills and 'late' beats, but also the ...timing, the gaps he leaves, what he doesn't play.
Robert Plant described him as a 'thrifty drummer' and I have to agree.
He was no Peart, Herb or Carey, but that does not make him any worse
for it. He was in a band which was full of chemistry and somehow was
worth more than the sum of its parts (and pretty mighty parts the 4 of
them were).
Edited by enigma - October 19 2006 at 19:03
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Passionist
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:46 |
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overrating is overrated...
I agree with the author. Must say that. He was good with John-Paul Jones, alone, don't know, didn't live back then, but what I've heard, I wouldn't ask for much more.
People tend to blindly think the band the like the most has the best players. Well, THe fact is that a studio musician is often better than someone in a band even though his job is to play beat through the whole song. That's a skill too. In fact some find it harder to play the same all the time than keep up variating. The reason why I dislike Mike Portnoy for instance.
About Jimmy Page. He sure wasn't the best, but boy could he make awesome riffs. That he could do, can even...
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Tony R
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:42 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
[IMG]height=17 alt=Dead src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> "Overrated" is a dumb, irritating, over-used word -- and I don't have to tell you why. |
explanations are over-rated.... 
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Peter
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:35 |
 "Overrated" is a dumb, irritating, over-used word -- and I don't have to tell you why.
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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erik neuteboom
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:31 |
This thread prooves that discussing musicians is a matter of taste and very subjective because for me Jimmy Page is a guitar god, from his great electric work on the Danelectro guitar and the Gibson Les Paul and Gibson twin-neck to the excellent acoustic workon his Martin guitar like Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, awesome  But I agree that his live performances were a bit sloppy, especially when he was numbed by drugs and alcohol 
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OpethGuitarist
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:25 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Since you mentioned to make it a personal vendetta to keep Led Zep out of Prog Archives I don't take you serious. What's next: Jimmy Page is an average guitar player ...? |
jimmy page is an average guitar player, and far below average in comparison to what I listen to mostly. has a few great songs he wrote and a myriad of average songs, combined with the fact that as Cygnus said, he was compeltely awful live As for bonham, no, he's not great like Buddy Rich or anything, but hes far better than Ringo Starr, who i've never liked and always thought he detracted from The Beatles sound
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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erik neuteboom
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:22 |
OK and now for something completely different, being serious...no jokes 
If you listen to the excellent two DVD by Led Zeppelin, especially DVD2, you can notice how both powerful as inventive John Bonham drums, the interplay with the other musicians is great and his drum work features lots of variation. In my opinion he has a very unique style and he is one of the great drummers of all times, not the best but still at a very high level. And he is not overrated, not in the press!
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Sasquamo
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 18:11 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Since you mentioned to make it a personal vendetta to keep Led Zep out of Prog Archives I don't take you serious. What's next: Jimmy Page is an average guitar player ...? |
That was a joke. It didn't sound serious to me when I wrote it.
Edited by Sasquamo - October 20 2006 at 16:12
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Do you think John Bonham is overrated?
