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frippism 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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 Posted: March 24 2012 at 14:06 |
 ProgEpics wrote:
Gentle giant and jethro tull are the most over-rated bands on here imo, They are an example of being overly complex with nothing else to offer. Prog is not complex instrumental sections that go on and on..prog is supposed to be emotional. Dark side of the moon is not even close to being complex technically but it has so much emotion and great melody and jazzy chord arranging..The great albums are straight to the point and dont noodle around for 15 minutes, you need substance..quality over quantity. |
I don't like it when people use the word "should" in cases like these. Should? This is how it needs to be?? And what's noodling, and when is noodling and when is it improvising.
poaehrgpoahfgpoaifhvaefpogafdgpoaiuh 
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There be dragons
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:54 |
ProgEpics wrote:
Gentle giant and jethro tull are the most over-rated bands on here imo, They are an example of being overly complex with nothing else to offer. Prog is not complex instrumental sections that go on and on..prog is supposed to be emotional. Dark side of the moon is not even close to being complex technically but it has so much emotion and great melody and jazzy chord arranging..The great albums are straight to the point and dont noodle around for 15 minutes, you need substance..quality over quantity. |
So a more mainstream prog album is better than a more progressive rock type prog album? Actually DSOTM is great...but so is Octopus and Thick as a Brick for example.
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:54 |
Sometimes when I'm bored I like to skydive naked into a porcupine field.
That is the only good answer you can get for such a silly statement, OP.
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There be dragons
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23112
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:50 |
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Ahh snap Alex. Of course you are right. As a matter of fact, the majority is always right. Just because I happen to love eroding and improvisational music, does actually equate me being wrong and rather mad y'know.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:44 |
^ well, submitting them to ratings and reviewing on an all encompassing music website... Right? 
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23112
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:42 |
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A lot of people adore Tangerine Dream's Zeit. They think it is one of the most artistic and imaginative albums ever made, but calling it great from a compositional perspective is pretty absurd.
You mentioned Dark side of the Moon, and while I love the album myself, I think Ummagumma is a far better album. And yes I am also including the studio side, which incidentally is one of my faves.
How does one quantify music? Is Mozart a better musician than Stockhausen? How could you ever possibly find out?
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:36 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23112
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:34 |
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^I get what you're saying, but it is still something that relies on personal opinion. Not fact.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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ProgEpics
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 05 2010
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 92
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:31 |
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Gentle giant and jethro tull are the most over-rated bands on here imo, They are an example of being overly complex with nothing else to offer. Prog is not complex instrumental sections that go on and on..prog is supposed to be emotional. Dark side of the moon is not even close to being complex technically but it has so much emotion and great melody and jazzy chord arranging..The great albums are straight to the point and dont noodle around for 15 minutes, you need substance..quality over quantity.
Edited by ProgEpics - March 24 2012 at 13:34
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Come on you target for faraway laughter,
Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:26 |
colorofmoney91 wrote:
I like my progressive music to be absolutely stagnant. |
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 13:00 |
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Sorry, just looking for the bathroom.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 698
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:58 |
dr prog wrote:
but do prog listeners continually choose the most experimental/least composed stuff over the most well composed? |
I don't think being experimental necessarily means that the music is built on a minor degree of composing. You can construct elaborate stuff and still be experimental and still retain a sense of purpose and intent behind it. But of course there is music which you might say is entirely experimental, just for the sake of it, and it's up to each person to decide if it is and what quality it may have. But experimentalism is a relative thing. It's not the antithesis to "good composing". You can include experimentation to different degrees. 100% experimental would mean that it would be an "experiment", and no one would be sure what was going on.
dr prog wrote:
Experimenting is ok, but when it's long passages of non melodic music, I believe this is filler and proof the band lacks strong composition to fill an album. |
Maybe I could agree with you in specific cases, but I don't think you really mean that in general all passages without melodies are filler material. "filler" is a specific word. It would only be so if there was a lack of true intent and inspiration behind the music, but how could you know?
dr prog wrote:
amatuer composers who rely on technicality and experimenting. |
I don't think in terms of amateur and professional, because its not such levels that determine the quality of the music. But to be strongly attached to virtuosity and experimenting and technical , any aspect really , won't produce the best music, I believe the focus should be all of the music, the sum of all parts.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:54 |
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wat
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:28 |
progresssaurus wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
I question the need for "balance" in the first place when it comes to opinions. Objectivity is really unachievable. |
But we can search intersubjective objectivity using new progressive method. We can made special poll for election so called Right Balanced Rater (RBR), which will rate albums instead us other. |
That was really good. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13481
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 10:06 |
My thought on this matter is that most people go for their personal taste (nothing wrong with that), not only on this forum, but everywhere you look, and therefore, you'll find things that you love and find amazing, with lower rating than others you would not care much for, and viceversa.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 09:18 |
progresssaurus wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
The original post is full of filler.
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Small-minded  The original post is EXPERIMENT !!!  |
I dont know about Experiment, but its definitely improvised.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 09:00 |
I feel you man, although I might like the technicality stuff more than you do. But I have a couple buddies who are prog heads as well, and they're always telling me they bought some album because it was in the top ten on the PA Top 100 of the year list, and they didn't like it, and I keep telling them just because it's high up on that list doesn't make it good! I think usually the best albums make the list, but are way down the list because they're given just as many 1 and 2 star ratings as 4 and 5. For some reason the best albums are always hated as much as they're loved around here.
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progresssaurus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1884
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:48 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
I question the need for "balance" in the first place when it comes to opinions. Objectivity is really unachievable. |
But we can search intersubjective objectivity using new progressive method. We can made special poll for election so called Right Balanced Rater (RBR), which will rate albums instead us other.
My nomination for RBR: dr prog.
And your?
p.s.
It is not joke, it is experiment 
Edited by progresssaurus - March 24 2012 at 09:16
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:45 |
What does that smiley mean ......What is this tread........why did I hit respond.......
Edited by tamijo - March 24 2012 at 08:48
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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colorofmoney91
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Biosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 22774
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Posted: March 24 2012 at 08:39 |
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I like my progressive music to be absolutely stagnant.
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Do PA proggers have the right prog balance?
. Do proggers listen to band catalogues extensively? Do they give all albums enough spins or do they buy so many albums from different bands than they don't get time to enjoy albums over many listens? I'm finding several albums by bands that rate low here to be close to the best albums. Full of quality compositions. Quality compositions will always come out on top. I'm past that overdone prog and fusion which tries to get over complex. Just sounds a bit of a mess. Or you get the amatuer composers who rely on technicality and experimenting. That doesn't go far with me either. It's time we all matured and gave the right albums the high ratings in here 