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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should Ratings Be Abolished?
    Posted: August 19 2015 at 10:03
YES!

and reviews too!


Just keep the database.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2015 at 04:08
I struggle understanding reviews written in English most days.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2015 at 03:21
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Nice one Raff! I can easily take care of the Scandinavian lingos bar the Finnish, which is complete gibberish to me. I can count to three though but that's all
 
I know what Hoyry Kone and Haikara mean... Tongue
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:09
Nice one Raff! I can easily take care of the Scandinavian lingos bar the Finnish, which is complete gibberish to me. I can count to three though but that's all
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 05:19
I would gladly take care of any Italian-language reviews. Unfortunately, Georgian or Ethiopian would be somewhat beyond my skills Smile.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 04:48
Indeed, despite some reviewers misusing the star system (or not using them according to moi!!!AngryLOL), it doesn't bother me greatly. Ultimately the ratings come out relatively the same throughout RM and PAClapGeek... the better albums come out on top within a group's discography.
However, the trick I use is not just to compare each album within a band's catalogue or within a given genre, but also in rock music history and how it could be significant. So yeah, it's not just about what and how I love the album, outside factors can interfere for added points.... and I specify it in the review.

Of course, no site equals Gnosis2000 , which I trust it almost blindly, not just because I'm one of the chosen few)Hug




As for allowing reviews in other languages, it wouldn't be too hard to get one or two Spanish or French speakers collabs   (.... or Dutch .... or German... Or Italian... or even Japanese)   to peruse over them incoming reviews ... OK, sure , getting a few Indonesians, Ethiopians, a couple of Georgians (what fCensoredg alphabet they got!!Shocked) or Iranians might prove a ittle more difficult




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 02:55
I like the fact that you always managed to be somewhat conservative with the masterpiece status.....again not a condonement of the star system on my behalf, but if we're going to use the buggers, it's important that we won't reduce things we like to 5s and those we don't to 1s, which sadly is how many of our raters go about it.
(even if I at times feel you're being too conservative:-P Common man - Igor Wakhevitch's Logos and Docteur Faust both are masterpieces!!! Still loved your little Igor stint as he seems to be completely overlooked on PA...and everywhere else for that matter.)

I would actually be in favour of allowing reviews in other languages - as long as we had some way of telling if the individual reviews followed the guidelines, although that sounds rather impossible. We would have to have some linguist admins come to the fore for that to ever fly.

Instead of ratings though - then why not make it possible for members to have a list of their fave/most hated albums? That way we're still able to see what people go for without resorting to numbers.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 02:25
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

....and yes I still firmly support the notion of scrapping ratings altogether. Putting a numeric value on something as volatile and changing as music is fruitless and downright silly.



Well, I'm glad you manage to enjoy my sometimes-embarrassing drivel, cos sometimes I'm not sure where I get at. Once my drive to write reviews come back, I'll first attack a few un-worthy reviews, where I can do so much better (Soft Machine and Crimson's studio albums, for ex).  I feel that it is important to do so, because generally my reviews sit in the top of the page, so they must/should be presentable.

I'm still rid of flaws in my written English... Like most Latin people, I tend to do overlong sentences and try to put too much in a single one (namely by using/abusing of brackets for comments or asides or these "-" things), which can be confusing as hell.

Because a lot of reviewer are not English-mother-tonged and their English can be approximative. RYM solved that problem by allowing reviews of all languages (they even allow chinese or cyrillic characters). That's why I'm in favour of keeping them ratings, to make sure one understands or feels the way the reviewer goes.



 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:23
....and yes I still firmly support the notion of scrapping ratings altogether. Putting a numeric value on something as volatile and changing as music is fruitless and downright silly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 00:19
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Hugues: Big fan of Rollie's reviews here as well!! In fact, I have a lot of "favourite" reviewers on PA. People who, in the past 7-8 years, continuously have been successful in luring money out of my wallet. Though, as much as I dig his reviews, I'm not sure I ever bought an album on the basis of one of Rollie's. Most of the albums he writes about are ones I already have in my collection (or have heard). I tend to favour the more obscure write-ups, that is if I'm in the mood for love...sorry new music!

 
What scums, uh??? WinkLOL
 
As for Rollie, I know what you mean... it's generally albums I already know (I don't remember reading a review of a énew" (post 00's) album) .... but he's got such a fantastic way to talk about those old albums, hat I immediately reserve/borrow ASAP from the library those I don't own... Just for the pleasure to read him.
 
 



Well you're one of em Hugues (and sorry for my tardy response).
I hate having to list my fave writers because I always manage to forget half of em....and then go back endlessly to edit my post with new additions. I don't want to leave any out. One though, who I soarely miss, is Chris (Seventhsojourn).

He did a fantastic job on Os Mundi's Latin Mass.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 09:30
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:



(I'm merely trying to talk myself into writing again)


All artists with recent releases (or not so recent where the artist is still active) that have few or no reviews here, that aren't firmly established "stars" somewhere, deeply appreciate detailed feedback about their creations. The greater majority of them prefer feedback and highly respect feedback that is honest and well founded. More artists than the collabs are aware of are users of this site, even if not registered ;-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 08:26
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Hugues: Big fan of Rollie's reviews here as well!! In fact, I have a lot of "favourite" reviewers on PA. People who, in the past 7-8 years, continuously have been successful in luring money out of my wallet. Though, as much as I dig his reviews, I'm not sure I ever bought an album on the basis of one of Rollie's. Most of the albums he writes about are ones I already have in my collection (or have heard). I tend to favour the more obscure write-ups, that is if I'm in the mood for love...sorry new music!
 
What scums, uh??? WinkLOL
 
As for Rollie, I know what you mean... it's generally albums I already know (I don't remember reading a review of a "new" (post 00's) album) .... but he's got such a fantastic way to talk about those old albums, that I immediately reserve/borrow ASAP from the library those I don't own... Just for the pleasure to read him.
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - August 18 2015 at 02:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 08:01
Yes, ... and here are my reasons:

1. The lists! The five-star system is used for listing and sorting. Let's admit that some of us place some value into lists. "This album is at #6, that one is at #1." But why? Because of the demographics. Because of math, basically. Why is that? ... [shrugs] A list should have a purpose. If the purpose is to recommend albums EPs, etc., then who are we sorting for? Moreover, who are we listing and recommending for (because we, the progheads, are not all the same)? Besides, the max. listing capacity is 250 entries. For me that's not enough. RYM allows for way more than that ... in pages!

Just a lot of symbolism over substance.

2. The five-star system is confusingIt brings up the question of merit vs. honesty. Objective vs. subjective. Cold technicality vs. soul. I really don't know how many of us rate albums, EPs, etc. based on his/her own criteria and how many take the PA star system criteria seriously. I'm pretty sure there is a great number of people falling into the former group, which is why I say: The stars won't tell you what a review can. Also, why wouldn't everyone sincerely recognize Tangerine Dream's Rubycon as "Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music"? Why did the album earn the title based on math instead of its intrinsic merits?

3. If you want to keep the five-star system, ... fine. But why are we sticking with integral values? Don't we have reviewers who use whole stars but write in their reviews: "... but, oh, ... 4.5 stars, really." Does that sound familiar? You can use or not use stars for your own reasons, as many stars as you want, or be creative and come up with a system of your own and put that in your review.

4. I don't find it fun as others do. If anything, it made things more complicated than they should be.

If you don't wish to improve the five-star system, get rid of it. But hey, ... if you really want to keep the system because it makes such a deep psychological influence on our members and Web-tourists, ... OK. Keep it.

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Unfortunately, as I have already said elsewhere, the majority of Internet users seem to love rating anything with passionate intensity - just look at sites such as Yelp or TripAdvisor - so I don't think we stand a chance in hell of seeing ratings scrapped any time soon. 

This is exactly the reason I would not support scrapping ratings even though I personally find them useless at this point.  I don't want PA to become, well, kind of irrelevant for the large majority of users.  However that we may find the obsession with ratings silly, we'll just have to go along imo.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask this: how would this scrapping make PA irrelevant in the eyes of other users? (Irrelevant, not unimportant.)


Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 06 2015 at 08:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 07:16
Hugues: Big fan of Rollie's reviews here as well!! In fact, I have a lot of "favourite" reviewers on PA. People who, in the past 7-8 years, continuously have been successful in luring money out of my wallet. Though, as much as I dig his reviews, I'm not sure I ever bought an album on the basis of one of Rollie's. Most of the albums he writes about are ones I already have in my collection (or have heard). I tend to favour the more obscure write-ups, that is if I'm in the mood for love...sorry new music!

As for the current times of allergy to reading, I may have changed my mind - or at the very least changed my viewpoint. Maybe it's enough to have just one person read your review, if he or she got a kick out of it.
(I'm merely trying to talk myself into writing again)


Edited by Guldbamsen - July 06 2015 at 07:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 05:59
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Unfortunately, as I have already said elsewhere, the majority of Internet users seem to love rating anything with passionate intensity - just look at sites such as Yelp or TripAdvisor - so I don't think we stand a chance in hell of seeing ratings scrapped any time soon. 

This is exactly the reason I would not support scrapping ratings even though I personally find them useless at this point.  I don't want PA to become, well, kind of irrelevant for the large majority of users.  However that we may find the obsession with ratings silly, we'll just have to go along imo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 04:53
I read a lot of them
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2015 at 03:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Online reviews and ratings are not transparent so their value is questionable. In the UK the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) are currently investigating "paid for reviews" on consumer websites such as Trip Adviser and Check-a-trade, and Amazon is taking legal action against companies who pay for fake reviews of their own products. 

While fake reviews are less of a problem for such trivia as album reviews on publicly accessible review sites such as the PA or RYM, it would imprudent to pretend that they don't exist or are of no concern, the term "payola" was coined for the dubious practices of the music industry after all. Just because the behemoth of major labels has been consigned to history (at least from our "prog" perspective) does not mean that the plethora of one-man-and-his-dog labels and self-release artists that have replaced it are above reproach. Anything that damages the integrity of the PA, such as the behaviour of rating manipulation abusers, will have a knock-on affect on the public's confidence in the unsolicited reviews we publish.


This has been a subject for years, especially when sme sites are so prominent (like TA) that you can"t find the actual hotel or restaurant's page anymore. I simply never look at TA pages... I may be neandertalic in my way of acting, but I only use the web, once my choice is more or less set and need to make reservations

I generally agree with what you say, but payola was for certain artistes to get airplay on radios to brainwash the easy masses... I kind of doubt that someone would pay another just to write extatic reviews on an uncommercial site like PA or RYM, unless it's the artiste itself doing it. Writing an excellent review is not that effective unless you push it into a discussion (in  forum, for ex) to defend it. (IMHO, anyway)



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2015 at 03:25
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:


What is lacking are reviewers. New reviewers, quality reviewers. If this site had a reviewing team, it would soon be swimming in enough promos to fill up a swimming hall. Or three. Especially if said reviews were highlighted in some manner - upper half of the front page for instance. That would also, hopefully, create a drive for the ordinary reviewers to develop their skills well enough to become official reviewers. In this age of music streaming left, right, up and down as well as in the middle, those who would need pointers for material to try out on, the unreviewed album list for instance, could get easy guidance to those.

Something that over time would lead to more reviews and better reviews.


Personally I still get asked ten times a year (if not more, I'm not counting) to review stuff.  This is some kind of fishing (I don't know how many they contact on site), but obviously they just approach me blindly (probably given I'm still on #2 reviewer on PA), because if they'd read some of them (reviews), rhey might back out

I kindly decline their offer, not because I won't like (since when has that stopped me?Tongue); but because I lack time ... and drive... Haven't written a review ever since my laptop was stolen last November

So personally, the last thing I want is to be showered by demands for reviews of stuff I will probably not care the slightest for

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I get what you're saying Olav, but speaking for myself here: I would hate to be part of a team where I HAD to review certain albums. That's also why I mostly thank no to acts asking for a review.
I also highly suspect that noone really bothers reading them - maybe except for the people who also do reviews.

In todays day and age people stream their music or look for a rating. Reading 300 words in a row is just too much of a hassle.
This is also why I've (almost) stopped doing them. They seem fruitless.


yup, despite the fact that I haven't written a review since the loss of my computer, I was really not nearly as enthusiastic about reviewing anymore - and JS' (Easy Money) attitude  on JMA (though understandable >> good reviewing for jazz is much tougher) nearly killed my drive about 18 months ago.

However, I do think that rsome eviews are being read  while listening to the samples offered (either here or elsewhere). It seems natural to do so - a normal process of  investigation (at least to moi)

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Don't get me wrong - I would love for things to be different; I just don't see any proof suggesting that members or visitors read READ the frontpage.....and I happen to love writing reviews
I do read em though. Man I don't know what I would've done if I'd missed Michael's (Neu!mann) recent Amon Düül write-up. That thing was hilarious and wonderfully written.


Nobody's reviews are more entertaining than Rollie's (Chicapah) IMHO. The man is a gifted writer than sends me back to my keyboard every  time I read one of his reviews.

As for the frontpage; I think people peruse who's reviewed and what album, but probably will not read the reviews there, but will do so in the dedicated pages.
Actually, I suspect that when an album gets reviewed a few times in the last 20 rebviews, it's a reaction to one particular review that might have offended (so some do read them on the frontpage). As for me, I often became aware that so & so was added to the DB because I saw theur album reviewed on the front page.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 15:12
I would like to see the album ratings to include half stars. For example 3.5 stars instead of rounding off to 4.
That said, I wouldn't change a thing. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 14:37
Originally posted by mogol mogol wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If you personally want to add artists then prove your worth and become a collaborator on one of the teams.

No, I don't promote myself here :) I have my blog where I can add any artist, so my ego is satisfied. I just do believe that giving more rights to simple users can breathe some fresh air into this site and help it develop. I think that it's the users that are the most valuable resource. The most part of database here has been filled and reviews written not by administration, but by users. At the same they in general are not trusted.
This is a collaborative volunteer site, every single one of the more than 280 collaborators and reviewers are ordinary visitors to the site who stayed to help out. Even the site and forum Admins are (unpaid) volunteers.  so one except the site owner can delete an unwanted artist so there has to be some level of control in which artists can be added and which cannot. I trust people in general but I do not trust every one, (only a complete fool would trust every one on the internet), allowing uncontrolled additions would lead to stupid additions by stupid people and the world is full of those.


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