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Prog Snob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 12 2012
Location: Staten Island
Status: Offline
Points: 225
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Topic: Pagan's Mind vs Symphony X Posted: October 06 2012 at 09:02 |
Whoever said Celestial Entrance takes some parts from DT is correct. I also noticed a couple of Fates Warning parts in there. However, the album as a whole is pretty good. This is a tough call. I don't like everything Symphony X has done. I don't like everything PM has done either. In the end however I would probably choose Symphony X. Through The Looking Glass is one my favorite songs ever. (Though it does bear some resemblances to Under A Glass Moon. Anyone else pick this up?)
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Jbird
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: October 06 2012 at 08:24 |
Iconoclast, taken by itself without context, is a very good album.
But yes, it does sound pretty much like Paradise Lost 2.0, without some of the diversity PL had.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: October 05 2012 at 22:27 |
Chozal wrote:
Never understood why so many people got excited about Iconoclast ... I loved Paradise Lost, and Iconoclast sounded like Paradise Lost - only less diverse. Too many moments when I went "hang on I know this riff ..." to interest me. Plus the exact same production as the previous album.
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Agreed. After four years (2007 to 2011), you would think they would come out with something taking it to another level - but alas, no...
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3659
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Posted: October 04 2012 at 13:23 |
Symphony X for me. Far superior IMO.
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7798
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Posted: September 29 2012 at 09:07 |
progbethyname wrote:
^. Agreed! ICONOCLAST is badass. I love it. When i feel like a really good tech metal/heavy metal album I through that double discer on! Great stuff indeed. Saw them live last year. They opened for ICED EARTH. | Woops! Forgot the question. Yes. SYMPHONY X over PAGAN any day for me. 😜
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7798
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Posted: September 29 2012 at 09:06 |
^. Agreed! ICONOCLAST is badass. I love it. When i feel like a really good tech metal/heavy metal album I through that double discer on! Great stuff indeed. Saw them live last year. They opened for ICED EARTH.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Chozal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 01 2011
Location: Melun, France
Status: Offline
Points: 187
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Posted: September 28 2012 at 19:06 |
Never understood why so many people got excited about Iconoclast ... I loved Paradise Lost, and Iconoclast sounded like Paradise Lost - only less diverse. Too many moments when I went "hang on I know this riff ..." to interest me. Plus the exact same production as the previous album.
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The Mystical
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 604
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Posted: September 28 2012 at 18:11 |
Yeah, after listening to "Iconoclast", I would have to say that Symphony x's later stuff is incredible. I do love Pagan's Mind's new album.
Edited by The Mystical - February 23 2013 at 18:22
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I am currently digging: Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz! Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13016
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 23:39 |
If i had to take one album between the two it would be Celestial Entrance but overall Symphony X would easily be my choice.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 21:24 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
CCVP wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Stagnated? Their last two albums are more metal, and more widely appealing to fans of other sub-genres of metal, than any other of their albums. I, personally, prefer The Odyssey to anything else they've done, but I can recognize the development of their style in the last two albums and appreciate it for what it is as well.
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But they have not brought anything new to the table except being heavier. |
That depends on your viewpoint.
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Exactly. They do sound a lot different, away from proggy but wider in subgenres of metal.
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 13:54 |
CCVP wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Stagnated? Their last two albums are more metal, and more widely appealing to fans of other sub-genres of metal, than any other of their albums. I, personally, prefer The Odyssey to anything else they've done, but I can recognize the development of their style in the last two albums and appreciate it for what it is as well.
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But they have not brought anything new to the table except being heavier. |
That depends on your viewpoint.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:38 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Stagnated? Their last two albums are more metal, and more widely appealing to fans of other sub-genres of metal, than any other of their albums. I, personally, prefer The Odyssey to anything else they've done, but I can recognize the development of their style in the last two albums and appreciate it for what it is as well.
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But they have not brought anything new to the table except being heavier.
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:32 |
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Stagnated? Their last two albums are more metal, and more widely appealing to fans of other sub-genres of metal, than any other of their albums. I, personally, prefer The Odyssey to anything else they've done, but I can recognize the development of their style in the last two albums and appreciate it for what it is as well.
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JS19
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 10 2010
Location: Lancaster, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 05:44 |
sleeper wrote:
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Well, they definitely changed a bit from The Odyssey onwards, but I'm never sure by how much or in what way, other than getting heavier. I know plenty of people say they're less prog but to be honest I dont hear much less from Paradise Lost or Iconoclast compared to Divine Wings... and Twilight in Olympus.
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Well all I know is I dislike pre-Odyssey albums and love post-Odyssey albums so there must be some fairly large difference...
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 05:41 |
CCVP wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite. |
Well, they definitely changed a bit from The Odyssey onwards, but I'm never sure by how much or in what way, other than getting heavier. I know plenty of people say they're less prog but to be honest I dont hear much less from Paradise Lost or Iconoclast compared to Divine Wings... and Twilight in Olympus.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 21:57 |
The Mystical wrote:
Wow, I see you all passionately prefer Symphony X...how come? To me (just my opinion) they seem not very original. I think I prefer PM because they are more surreal and diverse. |
Honestly, I don't listen that diversity (much less originality), they sound extremely close and derivative of Dream Theater IMO.
On the other hand, Symphony X is pretty much one of a kind.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 29 2012 at 21:59
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 21:43 |
sleeper wrote:
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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I disagree with you on this last paragraph, bro. They changed their sound since the 90's, but they stagnated after V - Mythology Suite.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 19:18 |
Pagan's Mind are a pretty bog standard DT clone (and have even stole whole parts of Dream Theater songs for tracks on Celestial Entrance, I was not impressed when I first heard Back to the Magic of Childhood Pt2 (I think its that song, havent listened in several years now) and found it to be a rip off of Learning to Live)with nothing special about them bands like Suspyre and Haken do the same thing with far more creativity and quality.
Blending Neo-Classical Power Metal and prog was a pretty original thing back in the early-mid 90's and, granted SX havent progressed much, if at all, in the near 20 years since but I find their music very enjoyable still with each album. One of the very few vanilla prog metal bands that I still listen to on even a semi regular basis.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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The Mystical
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 604
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 17:44 |
Wow, I see you all passionately prefer Symphony X...how come? To me (just my opinion) they seem not very original. I think I prefer PM because they are more surreal and diverse.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: June 28 2012 at 12:56 |
Andy Webb wrote:
CCVP wrote:
Andy Webb wrote:
Symphony X every time.
PM is good, but they're on a totally different level than SX. |
I hope you mean that they are in a much lower level than SX. |
well duh |
I can't read your mind, k?
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