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    Posted: July 10 2012 at 20:09
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

"What is 'vanilla prog metal'?"

The worst kind.

Wasn't the troll line some pages back? Tongue LOL

I'm a bit slow these days >_>
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2012 at 08:31
What an awful lot of feelings such words can provide.
If you know what You like, you dont give a damn !
 
Sure Porcupine Tree, would be considered Vanilla, if you compare them to some Chinese prog band, playing
Temple bells and singing backwards in a unik local dialect, but thats not the same as they are bad. 
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2012 at 08:22
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

A lot of people like Death, though, and I'm sure some would put them in their top ten bands.  Many peope who dislike DT are fans of Death, so it makes sense that they would keep voting for them.                                                                      
You should have picked Torman Maxt, the most hated band on progarchives, instead. Wink
 
EDIT -  replying to Geoff, two people posted while I was still writing.

Torman Maxt isn't so bad, actually. Too much blind hate towards them IMO because of the sh*tstorm one review caused some years ago.


I haven't actually heard any of their stuff, I had just read reviews and heard people call them the "most hated band."  I did notice that their latest release has a 3.5 rating or something; it seems like the only one people really hate is "The Problem of Pain, Part 1."

Making a long story short, that is because some years ago (probably as way for M@X to make the site more profitable), bands could pay for a prime spot at the site's homepage. For some time that worked quite well and it was (in my opinion, let me be clear) a great breath of fresh air, specially regarding new bands.

Then Tormant Maxt jumped on that wagon for their now lowest rated album, Problem of Pain 1, and somebody s*at a huge 1 star review on the album, basically telling that is was the worst thing in the history of mankind. The guys kindly asked M@X to remove it at least as long as they were paying for the spot. Then there was an "outcry" and "accusations" of censorship and whatnot; instead of letting things cool down, the guys from Tormant Maxt fed the flame war that followed with tons of gallons of gasoline. 

By that time, I was only lurking at the forums, possibly before I was a member, so I couldn't see everything (I think there was a lot happening behind the scenes), but that's what I recall of it.

They weren't the only ones to crap all over their fandom, though. Even though it happened before I was a member, I know that Trent Gardner, from Magellan, had some altercations in this forum and is quite disliked by some of the older members (most of whom don't browse here anymore for various reasons); Steven Wilson also had his problems with PA, if he wasn't so bloody brilliant (and if PA wasn't constantly fed new members eager for progressive rock), his page(s) would be as dead as Magellan's and Tormant Maxt's. 

I'm pretty sure there were more people, but those are the most famous, as far as I recall.

Torman Maxt were actually the first band to pay for the featured spot. I can see why it got so many 1 star reviews, I downloaded  it last year and its got my first ever 1 star review, a painful experience to go through listening to that album. Vangough and Mono were more successful in the featured spots though.

I've heard about that Magellan interview but have never been able to find it to read it for my self, I'd like to know what got everybody annoyed.

Yeah, I've got into Mono from that spot, one of the few post rock bands I actually enjoy.

As for Magellan, I think that interview was hidden by the admins in order to stop the flamewar/hate and avoid the possibility of legal action. I don't even know if that's really possible, but the US justice system is crazy, so you never know.
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2012 at 06:10
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

A lot of people like Death, though, and I'm sure some would put them in their top ten bands.  Many peope who dislike DT are fans of Death, so it makes sense that they would keep voting for them.                                                                      
You should have picked Torman Maxt, the most hated band on progarchives, instead. Wink
 
EDIT -  replying to Geoff, two people posted while I was still writing.

Torman Maxt isn't so bad, actually. Too much blind hate towards them IMO because of the sh*tstorm one review caused some years ago.


I haven't actually heard any of their stuff, I had just read reviews and heard people call them the "most hated band."  I did notice that their latest release has a 3.5 rating or something; it seems like the only one people really hate is "The Problem of Pain, Part 1."

Making a long story short, that is because some years ago (probably as way for M@X to make the site more profitable), bands could pay for a prime spot at the site's homepage. For some time that worked quite well and it was (in my opinion, let me be clear) a great breath of fresh air, specially regarding new bands.

Then Tormant Maxt jumped on that wagon for their now lowest rated album, Problem of Pain 1, and somebody s*at a huge 1 star review on the album, basically telling that is was the worst thing in the history of mankind. The guys kindly asked M@X to remove it at least as long as they were paying for the spot. Then there was an "outcry" and "accusations" of censorship and whatnot; instead of letting things cool down, the guys from Tormant Maxt fed the flame war that followed with tons of gallons of gasoline. 

By that time, I was only lurking at the forums, possibly before I was a member, so I couldn't see everything (I think there was a lot happening behind the scenes), but that's what I recall of it.

They weren't the only ones to crap all over their fandom, though. Even though it happened before I was a member, I know that Trent Gardner, from Magellan, had some altercations in this forum and is quite disliked by some of the older members (most of whom don't browse here anymore for various reasons); Steven Wilson also had his problems with PA, if he wasn't so bloody brilliant (and if PA wasn't constantly fed new members eager for progressive rock), his page(s) would be as dead as Magellan's and Tormant Maxt's. 

I'm pretty sure there were more people, but those are the most famous, as far as I recall.

Torman Maxt were actually the first band to pay for the featured spot. I can see why it got so many 1 star reviews, I downloaded  it last year and its got my first ever 1 star review, a painful experience to go through listening to that album. Vangough and Mono were more successful in the featured spots though.

I've heard about that Magellan interview but have never been able to find it to read it for my self, I'd like to know what got everybody annoyed.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 21:04
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

"What is 'vanilla prog metal'?"

The worst kind.

Wasn't the troll line some pages back? Tongue LOL
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 21:00
"What is 'vanilla prog metal'?"

The worst kind.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 20:59
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

A lot of people like Death, though, and I'm sure some would put them in their top ten bands.  Many peope who dislike DT are fans of Death, so it makes sense that they would keep voting for them.                                                                      
You should have picked Torman Maxt, the most hated band on progarchives, instead. Wink
 
EDIT -  replying to Geoff, two people posted while I was still writing.

Torman Maxt isn't so bad, actually. Too much blind hate towards them IMO because of the sh*tstorm one review caused some years ago.


I haven't actually heard any of their stuff, I had just read reviews and heard people call them the "most hated band."  I did notice that their latest release has a 3.5 rating or something; it seems like the only one people really hate is "The Problem of Pain, Part 1."

Making a long story short, that is because some years ago (probably as way for M@X to make the site more profitable), bands could pay for a prime spot at the site's homepage. For some time that worked quite well and it was (in my opinion, let me be clear) a great breath of fresh air, specially regarding new bands.

Then Tormant Maxt jumped on that wagon for their now lowest rated album, Problem of Pain 1, and somebody s*at a huge 1 star review on the album, basically telling that is was the worst thing in the history of mankind. The guys kindly asked M@X to remove it at least as long as they were paying for the spot. Then there was an "outcry" and "accusations" of censorship and whatnot; instead of letting things cool down, the guys from Tormant Maxt fed the flame war that followed with tons of gallons of gasoline. 

By that time, I was only lurking at the forums, possibly before I was a member, so I couldn't see everything (I think there was a lot happening behind the scenes), but that's what I recall of it.

They weren't the only ones to crap all over their fandom, though. Even though it happened before I was a member, I know that Trent Gardner, from Magellan, had some altercations in this forum and is quite disliked by some of the older members (most of whom don't browse here anymore for various reasons); Steven Wilson also had his problems with PA, if he wasn't so bloody brilliant (and if PA wasn't constantly fed new members eager for progressive rock), his page(s) would be as dead as Magellan's and Tormant Maxt's. 

I'm pretty sure there were more people, but those are the most famous, as far as I recall.


Edited by CCVP - July 09 2012 at 21:01
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Points: 1281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2012 at 08:41
From what I gather, I can picture "Vanilla Prog Metal" as someone who listened to King Crimson's Red, tried to make an album in that vain and failed miserably. 

Edited by KingCrInuYasha - July 09 2012 at 08:42
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 21:14
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

A lot of people like Death, though, and I'm sure some would put them in their top ten bands.  Many peope who dislike DT are fans of Death, so it makes sense that they would keep voting for them.                                                                      
You should have picked Torman Maxt, the most hated band on progarchives, instead. Wink
 
EDIT -  replying to Geoff, two people posted while I was still writing.

Torman Maxt isn't so bad, actually. Too much blind hate towards them IMO because of the sh*tstorm one review caused some years ago.


I haven't actually heard any of their stuff, I had just read reviews and heard people call them the "most hated band."  I did notice that their latest release has a 3.5 rating or something; it seems like the only one people really hate is "The Problem of Pain, Part 1."
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

A lot of people like Death, though, and I'm sure some would put them in their top ten bands.  Many peope who dislike DT are fans of Death, so it makes sense that they would keep voting for them.                                                                      
You should have picked Torman Maxt, the most hated band on progarchives, instead. Wink
 
EDIT -  replying to Geoff, two people posted while I was still writing.

Torman Maxt isn't so bad, actually. Too much blind hate towards them IMO because of the sh*tstorm one review caused some years ago.

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

The important question that is being overlooked here is that if there such a thing as vanilla prog metal, what would the black specks actually consist of?

Hmm, that would go to post-metal, I think. They are definitely the other side of this coin and manage to sound even more alike between each other than the vanilla prog metal bands, even though every band supposedly have different influences from each other. 
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:55
Originally posted by VanVanVan VanVanVan wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


Death is actually getting a bunch of kill votes, Max (Fox on the Rocks) and I have been voting against them every time.  They're not bad or anything, but there's so many great bands on the list that I like more.  Do you like them?

I'd never even heard of "Death" until recently - probably mostly because I have no interest in Death or Doom metal.  I only like growls/screams when they're mixed in with other styles of singing - you may have heard my "hot sauce" analogy before.  But no, I put them in the list to see what would happen when a band that clearly does not belong in a top 10 of prog bands was stacked up against a bunch that do, and people kept giving kill votes to the ones that clearly do.  The point is: sadly, this place, I believe, has become more about musical disappreciation than musical appreciation since people are more eager to share about what they don't like.

I haven't seen the thread you're referring to, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it seems strange to use one of the most influential progressive extreme metal bands ever as an example that "clearly" does not belong in a list of top prog bands. Confused

If I've misunderstood, please set me straight. LOL

I have to agree with VVV on this. If you havent noticed yet, there are quite a few people here who generally prefer Exp/post and X-tech to vanilla prog metal (see what I mean about it being a difirentiating term) so putting Death, one of the most iconic and influentel exteme metal bands of all time up against DT (and TFK, it tends to be that Death fans wont like TFK either) was always going to provide a close race.

BTW, of the bands you mentioned in your previous post on this (Dream Theater, The Flower Kings, Pink Floyd and Death), none of them would make my top 10 bands and only PF would get close.
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:47
Myrath is actually the only band I know of from the African continent, but you're already aware of them.
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Side note inspired by silveraindrop75 - anyone know of any good African prog?
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:37
well, it's got to mean:
 
vanilla--white/caucasian/fair skinned people
prog: progressive music
 
therefore, progressive music played exclusively by white people. White prog supremacy?
 
More examples:
 
Vanilla Ice
Blue Eyed Soul
Vanilla Fudge
 
All of these artists imply a wite peorson who is representing a genre of music historically associated with black or African American culture.
 
 
 
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:30
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

The important question that is being overlooked here is that if there such a thing as vanilla prog metal, what would the black specks actually consist of?

Dark matter.
 
Then if dark matter is everywhere, wouldn't there be black spots in chocolate and strawberry progressive metal too?
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Points: 1708 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:27
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

The important question that is being overlooked here is that if there such a thing as vanilla prog metal, what would the black specks actually consist of?

Dark matter.
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:15
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

The important question that is being overlooked here is that if there such a thing as vanilla prog metal, what would the black specks actually consist of?
 
The scattered death growls?  Technical mistakes?  Unnecessary notes?  Power chords?  F# minor chords?
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:05
The important question that is being overlooked here is that if there such a thing as vanilla prog metal, what would the black specks actually consist of?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 1708 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 15:55
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


Looked at the list; you should listen to Iona as soon as you can, their music is breathtakingly beautiful, and they have to be in my top five favorite bands, though I'm still exploring the rest of their catalog.  Start with the live album Heaven's Bright Sun, as it provides an excellent introduction to the way the band sounds, and the performances even surpass the quality of the studio albums.

Thanks!  I'll keep that in mind!  Right now, 2012 albums are taking high precedence because I have decided to try for 100 2012 albums by the end of the year.  I'm at 50 now....  But I'll put Iona near to the top to remind me when I'm taking a break from 2012 stuff.
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2012 at 15:51
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

In any case, I have never heard anyone put Death in a list of the top Prog bands, and when I had the idea to put a disliked band into the fray, I went looking at ratings and saw they had an album that had an average barely over 3, with over 100 votes.

Yes, I dislike pure 100% death metal growls, but I don't make it a point to tell everyone that.  And I've actually listened to a few albums that were mostly growls and found quite a bit of merit to them.  Recently I listened to a Meshuggah album and thought it was good, though I don't prefer the vocals, and more recently I listened to Ne Obliviscaris and thought they were quite remarkable despite not being crazy about the vocal style.
 
Their first three albums were more straight ahead metal, and don't have high ratings on this site.  Their last four (Human, Individual Thought Patterns, Symbolic, and The Sound of Perseverance) are more progressive, and all have ratings over 4 stars with 126-260 ratings each.
 
I prefer when metal bands mix the heavy portion of their sound with more soft/ambient sections, both in the music and in the vocal style (I think it adds more variety and makes it more interesting and listenable), but I like death growls too.  UneXpect mixes clean vocals with growls a lot, you should try them, though they might be a bit extreme for your tastes.

I've heard that name.  Haven't tried them yet.  They will have to go on the list, which is getting longer and longer since I started it....

My favorites, as far as mixing grows with other vocals styles, are Epica and Orphaned Land, by the way.
 
Looked at the list; you should listen to Iona as soon as you can, their music is breathtakingly beautiful, and they have to be in my top five favorite bands, though I'm still exploring the rest of their catalog.  Start with the live album Heaven's Bright Sun, as it provides an excellent introduction to the way the band sounds, and the performances even surpass the quality of the studio albums.
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