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StaaViinsZ 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2014
Location: Texas
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Points: 101
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 Topic: Rock is dead
Posted: September 16 2014 at 20:37 |
Well, in order for a genre of music to be " dead", in my opinion, one of two things must be true:
A: No one is making Rock music any longer (lol)
or
B: People only come to make rock music briefly, then don't care anymore and leave a few months (or a couple years/albums) later
Since neither of those sound even fairly accurate, I would wager to say ROCK IS NOT DEAD.
With everything from Lady Gaga to Yes sometimes thrown into that huge conglomerate generic mess that is the "genre of Rock", it's pretty clear that Rock isn't dead, as least in some definition.
Then again, how does Gene Simmons define "Dead"?
If he's trying to say Hair Bands are dead, then I wouldn't totally agree, Being that some still exist, (Reckless Love, Steel Panther) and that I happen to like the old ones from the 80s, (along with several from the 80s still making music today [Stryper, Ratt, BloodGood, Europe]) but they are much less popular, yes.
If he's trying to say all this music that people make now isn't real Rock, then that's just his opinion.
Every time you turn around you see another old, or middle-aged person going "Music just isn't the same today. Back when I was a kid, music was GOOD".
And another kid going "I love Demi Lovato & Katy Perry".
Perhaps Gene Simmons has fallen into the age closed-minded-ness against today's music?
If anyone's ever heard of Black Veil Brides, you must realize the similarities they bear to KISS, in a modern way. From the make-up to the general style of music, (Hard Rock, or Metal, although BVB's style has gone through several significant changes over the course of a few albums) to their affectionately named fan base, (Black Veil Brides ARMY...) they're like KISS for teenagers (I happen to be a bit of a fan myself XD).
I believe Black Veil Brides happens to be a fairly successful band, and if Gene Simmons isn't close-minded, surely he would be able to see that, at least in comparison to KISS, they qualify as "Rock", and they are certainly not "Dead".
To say that online distribution killed Rock music is dumb. It's just a new way of distributing new music; again, it depends on your definition of "Rock", and "Dead". If severely damaging the record and physical media industry is what you speak of, sure, I would say it may have done that, but killed any genre of music? No, lol.
If anyone wants a more specific answer, they would need to define "Rock" and define "Dead".
That's pretty much all I can say.
Edited by StaaViinsZ - September 16 2014 at 20:39
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"Let us scream like Tom Mallicoat, and whisper like Geoff Tate, for the difference between the two is nigh."
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Archeus
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 17 2014
Location: The Dreamlands
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Points: 49
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 17:10 |
 Toaster Mantis wrote:
Electronic pop I'd wager, with certain hiphop and R&B subgenres close.
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Sad but true 
Edited by Archeus - September 13 2014 at 17:11
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What about dogs? What about cats? What about chickens?
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 16:39 |
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Electronic pop I'd wager, with certain hiphop and R&B subgenres close.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
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Points: 8856
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 16:18 |
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So, for those of you who'd say rock is dead or simply not the prevailing genre anymore (I might say the latter), what is the prevailing genre today?
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 15:56 |
CPicard wrote:
Oh, and, by the way, I think Throbbing Gristle or Einstürzende Neubauten had more influence than the Swans (at least, in Europe). 
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Einstürzende Neubauten definitely, what with Blixa Bargeld playing with Nick Cave, but I'm pretty sure I'm on a police watch list for admitting in public to listening to Throbbing Gristle.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Usandthem
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 07 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 13:06 |
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I don't think that a type of music can die.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
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Points: 8856
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 11:26 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Gene Simmons is a joke. So were KISS. They were a manufactured band releasing "product" and not "music". File under "entertainment for slow readers".
However, he's right. Over the last year, I had 5,700 hits on a Bandcamp profile (I would actually class myself as a musician.) About 1300 downloads. I give everything away to charity. So, the model at the time was, if you can't afford it, no problems. If you can afford it, donate what you can, all profits go to charity.
So, 20% hit ratio, not bad. Guess how much was in the pot after 6 months ? $2. Two lousy rotten dollars for writing an entire album which got international radio play. At this point, I gave up. Finally, I wrote a new album, released it, wooo, $18 in an entire week.
Even if you GIVE away free downloads, only 1 in 5 people who get a download code actually bother to download the files. They'd rather stream the music. All people do now is use internet radio stations like Spotify to stream audio. I remember reading somewhere that one "pop" musician had 30,000 plays and got enough royalties to buy a t shirt.
Listen up, folks, if you think music has gone down the pan over the last 30 years, wait and see what the next 30 are going to be like. If people don't start actually buying music again, there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to learn to play an instrument for you. Hence rock is dead. Music is dead. It was being killed by commercialism but is now being killed by the listening public. |
The self-release market is pretty over-saturated and it's really hard to
be successful in those endeavors. Mostly (with exceptions), the people
who will buy music want stamps of authenticity. A good label, physical
formats, nice packaging for those formats, presence on popular download
and streaming sites (iTunes, Spotify, etc.), a live show, good reviews,
etc. Mostly, the people who buy music are music magazine Top 40
listeners who will take risks in purchases but only if the odds of
quality seem good. It's hard to get that as a musician, though.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:53 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2826
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:42 |
Gene Simmons is a joke. So were KISS. They were a manufactured band releasing "product" and not "music". File under "entertainment for slow readers".
However, he's right. Over the last year, I had 5,700 hits on a Bandcamp profile (I would actually class myself as a musician.) About 1300 downloads. I give everything away to charity. So, the model at the time was, if you can't afford it, no problems. If you can afford it, donate what you can, all profits go to charity.
So, 20% hit ratio, not bad. Guess how much was in the pot after 6 months ? $2. Two lousy rotten dollars for writing an entire album which got international radio play. At this point, I gave up. Finally, I wrote a new album, released it, wooo, $18 in an entire week.
Even if you GIVE away free downloads, only 1 in 5 people who get a download code actually bother to download the files. They'd rather stream the music. All people do now is use internet radio stations like Spotify to stream audio. I remember reading somewhere that one "pop" musician had 30,000 plays and got enough royalties to buy a t shirt.
Listen up, folks, if you think music has gone down the pan over the last 30 years, wait and see what the next 30 are going to be like. If people don't start actually buying music again, there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to learn to play an instrument for you. Hence rock is dead. Music is dead. It was being killed by commercialism but is now being killed by the listening public.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:35 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Only thing dead is mediocre cheesy 70's rock like Kiss
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Fixed for historical accuracy. Now, if people could focus on the, er, message of Simmons and not his music and his (awful) personality... Oh, and, by the way, I think Throbbing Gristle or Einstürzende Neubauten had more influence than the Swans (at least, in Europe).
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: September 12 2014 at 04:31 |
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I thought KISS were primarly a 1970s band not an 1980s one? I'm not even a fan of theirs, but I'm under the impression they were very important in popularizing the hard rock/heavy metal style of the mid-1970s to a large audience especially in North America.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20501
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 22:06 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Only thing dead is mediocre cheesy 80s rock like Kiss |
That about sums it up.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 16:02 |
The Cure, Joy Division, and Sonic Youth are more popular than Swans here as well, but compared to KISS that difference is miniscule. KISS had their own music-playing toothbrush for crying out loud. But I can't think of KISS being very influential outside of the 80s, and I can't see anyway in which they actually redefined the genre nor did they seem to affect much music outside of rock music. The subject gets a bit complex when you're discussing when these artists were influential, how these artists were influential, how influential these artists were, in what music spheres these artists were influential, and in what musical climate these artists are influential. We probably should have even started with actually defining "genre-redefining."
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 14:34 |
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The Cure and Joy Division are definitely more popular than Swans here, and somewhat mainstream. Probably more popular with younger generations than KISS, though their audiences are different enough that I wager it's difficult to tell. I think Sonic Youth are also more popular on their own side of the Atlantic Ocean than here. Interesting how some artists have an easier time crossing America/Europe cultural differences than others.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 14:31 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Maybe our different locations are playing me a trick? Here in continental Europe, Swans are a somewhat high-profile cult band but hardly a household name except in alternative subcultural circles. (goths, punks, rivetheads etc)
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That's possible. They're definitely more popular in the US and UK than continental Europe, I imagine. Perhaps I'm overestimating their influence simply because of the people I'm around (few alternative subcultures, but a lot of musicians and avid music listeners, to be sure). And if it helps Joy Division, the Cure, and Sonic Youth are all bands I'd consider influential and probably more wide-reaching chronologically than KISS, but not the most popular universally , and the dichotomy between influential and popular may be where we have our disagreement. But there are definitely still rock albums that have a big influence on music and The Seer is one of them albeit less influential than, say, Revolver (but no one has ever matched the Beatles' influence so that's a moot point). Rock may no longer be a media darling, but it's still alive, still changing, and still a big influence on music outside genre lines.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66061
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:46 |
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I can't imagine the Swans level being any bigger than the little finger of KISS' influence back in the 70's. Granted, the Swans are probably more influential on the current generation than KISS is, but you are comparing ants to giants with comparing Swans to KISS.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:46 |
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Maybe our different locations are playing me a trick? Here in continental Europe, Swans are a somewhat high-profile cult band but hardly a household name except in alternative subcultural circles. (goths, punks, rivetheads etc)
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:37 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
Of course, it still happens plenty. Swans' The Seer, for instance, has had a pretty big influence on music in general in the past couple of years.
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In what kind of universe are Swans anywhere as influential as KISS? Well, maybe in goth/industrial circles...
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In what kind of universe are KISS even a well-respected band? Maybe we're living in alternate universes here, but Swans have made a pretty big impact (in more than just goth and industrial circles) with The Seer. Not with previous work, mind you. Practically every electronic artist mentions Swans in interviews. They've been quoted by the melodic post-punk band Protomartyr in their newest record. Thor Harris is almost a public figure. Rock bands in my area (I live in a small city in the Deep South, mind you) are listing Swans as an influence. It's only been two years and this is happening. Sure, they don't have as many album sales as KISS. What do you expect? KISS is practically a corporation. But I hardly think of them as genre-redefining or influential in anything but stage antics. Maybe back in the 80s they had some sort of relevance or influence, and perhaps more than Swans do now, but my point was simply that there are still influential albums being made and that have been made in the past decade.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:14 |
Polymorphia wrote:
Of course, it still happens plenty. Swans' The Seer, for instance, has had a pretty big influence on music in general in the past couple of years.
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In what kind of universe are Swans anywhere as influential as KISS? Well, maybe in goth/industrial circles...
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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bloodnarfer
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Joined: April 15 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 2162
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Posted: September 11 2014 at 12:35 |
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I thought the only reason people listened to gene simmons was because he had a freakishly long tongue and he would snipe-lick your ear if you didn't pay attention to him
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Rock is dead
