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Dick Heath 
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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 Topic: prog timeline on Wiki
Posted: September 01 2006 at 12:14 |
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Suddenly struck me: why the hell is Syn listed? Sets the precedent for all the rest of those pre-prog bands (without pulling the psychedelic bands), for instance (and starting with Yes's other roots) Mabel Greer's Toyshop, Tomorrow, and then Vanilla Fudge etc.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20654
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Posted: September 01 2006 at 08:03 |
 Dick Heath wrote:
Sean
Away from the arts side of Wik, I now have PhD students quoting the scientific entries - one of the interpretation of contact angles wrt surface science was nonsense, and that (I have to presume) from a scientist who should know these things. Something more popular such a prog rock, is even more open to fans with faulty memories (but aren't we all), and fans who are prepared to change the truthful detail of history.
You'll note some changes made by me:
1. Soft machine didn't release Jet Propelled Photograph (singular ?) in 1967 - rather recorded it as a demo under recording producer G Gomelsky, who eventually licensed the recordings to BYG Records of France for a 1971 release as Record Generation Vol 8 and Volume?(I have not got this album), i.e. originally the recordings were on two side of two separate albums!!!!. In the late 70's Charly Records had the license to the release the demo on a single LP, this time called it Soft Machine At The Beginning. It was sometime in the 80's that it reissued on vinyl yet again gaining the title Jet Propelled Photograph.
2. How can the first Renaissance album be forgotten from the list for 1969? Easy, because the likes of author Jerry Lucky as a second generation fan based in the US was not aware (as we first generation fans in the UK), of what originally happened, so doesn't write it up in his Progressive Rock Files. A reminder (it is in my review for the first Renaissance album): the BBC took up Renaissance as the first of the new intelligent rock bands, and so they got a whole art programme to themselves (unheard of before then). It may be argued that the public in the UK were more aware of Renaissance than King Crimson initially.
3. I for one, loath omission of Touch, a genuine pioneering US prog rock band, acknowledged by Yes and Kansas as an influence, whilst the avant rock of Zappa, very belated gets called prog rock and is included (and thereby don't forget United States Of America........).
4. And if Soft Machine's Third gets listed you can't escape jazz rock fusion. |
You can do all the changes you want, I just gave the link, I did not do the work . I chanced upon it, found major discrepancies and gave it to the members, because obviously a lot of them a bored out of their skulls, so theu could coorect and supplement it.
Wiki is hardly a source of references for me!! Too many people use it for their own purposes. I even find the site dangerous for the very reason that some might want to bend the facts historically
As we discussed Wiki's article on AOR, Ivān is now unable to make a distinction between AORadios and AORock and now calls CTTE, TAAB or Zeppelin AOR . >> take a look at the artistes that are included in Wiki's list of AOR groups >> simply disgraceful 
Edited by Sean Trane - September 01 2006 at 08:03
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:19 |
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naah.. PA's far better...
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:50 |
Sean
Away from the arts side of Wik, I now have PhD students quoting the scientific entries - one of the interpretation of contact angles wrt surface science was nonsense, and that (I have to presume) from a scientist who should know these things. Something more popular such a prog rock, is even more open to fans with faulty memories (but aren't we all), and fans who are prepared to change the truthful detail of history. You'll note some changes made by me:
1. Soft machine didn't release Jet Propelled Photograph (singular ?) in 1967 - rather recorded it as a demo under recording producer G Gomelsky, who eventually licensed the recordings to BYG Records of France for a 1971 release as Record Generation Vol 8 and Volume?(I have not got this album), i.e. originally the recordings were on two side of two separate albums!!!!. In the late 70's Charly Records had the license to the release the demo on a single LP, this time called it Soft Machine At The Beginning. It was sometime in the 80's that it reissued on vinyl yet again gaining the title Jet Propelled Photograph.
2. How can the first Renaissance album be forgotten from the list for 1969? Easy, because the likes of author Jerry Lucky as a second generation fan based in the US was not aware (as we first generation fans in the UK), of what originally happened, so doesn't write it up in his Progressive Rock Files. A reminder (it is in my review for the first Renaissance album): the BBC took up Renaissance as the first of the new intelligent rock bands, and so they got a whole art programme to themselves (unheard of before then). It may be argued that the public in the UK were more aware of Renaissance than King Crimson initially.
3. I for one, loath omission of Touch, a genuine pioneering US prog rock band, acknowledged by Yes and Kansas as an influence, whilst the avant rock of Zappa, very belated gets called prog rock and is included (and thereby don't forget United States Of America........).
4. And if Soft Machine's Third gets listed you can't escape jazz rock fusion.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20654
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Posted: September 01 2006 at 04:57 |
Dick Heath wrote:
It's only a start. Glaring errors and omissions need to be fixed. Wik is an increasingly unreliable, unreferenced, unrefereed source of info. Trust some of its details, be sceptical about others, and where you see nonsense, correct it - do not treat Wik as your main source of reference. BTW the two reference books listed at best are reasonable, and both by authors are second generation prog fans.
And where is the jazz rock ?
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this is of course the danger of such open sites.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: August 31 2006 at 18:51 |
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It's only a start. Glaring errors and omissions need to be fixed. Wik
is an increasingly unreliable, unreferenced, unrefereed source of info.
Trust some of its details, be sceptical about others, and where you see
nonsense, correct it - do not treat Wik as your main source of
reference. BTW the two reference books listed at best are reasonable,
and both by authors are second generation prog fans.
And where is the jazz rock ?
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Fitzcarraldo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1835
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Posted: August 31 2006 at 14:07 |
Garion81 wrote:
Progbear is the one who did it. Not a bad start. Lots of work to keep it up.
I applaud him for his efforts.  |
And I applaud Flonkus/Progbear too. Having read the Wikipedia discussion page about whether or not to delete the time line, I have to say that Flonkus came across as a nice guy (and a patient one, too) in his postings in the discussion.
I think it was the correct decision to keep the page as I can see it being of use to some people, particularly people discovering the genre and wanting to find out in depth about its history.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 20:41 |
xtopher wrote:
Rush was formed way back in 1968?!? This is news to me!
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But true nontheless!
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A˛ Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 20:30 |
Very cool. 
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captainbeyond
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 20:25 |
Three cheers to the studious effort put in!
I hate to be a lame-o here, BUT: isn't this wiki entry just going to become one, big, stretched-out, vertical version of this site, as everyone adds their fave newly-formed bands and albums? Is there anything in place that will maintain structure, discipline, or editorship? Or will each year soon have a hundred albums (or more) under its listing? Or, hey, is that the point, all along?
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Viajero Astral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3118
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 19:32 |
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Nice
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 17:13 |
Nice list. Very informative. Obviously he put alot of effort into it. 
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 15:57 |
Progbear is the one who did it. Not a bad start. Lots of work to keep it up.
I applaud him for his efforts. |
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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xtopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 391
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 15:15 |
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Rush was formed way back in 1968?!? This is news to me!
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mccrank_yeahrig
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 09:51 |
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very good !! it's very useful
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 09:09 |
Well done indeed! And I see there's lots of space for adding profiles of Italian prog bands... That's a job for the mighty GR and her band of sidekicks! 
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 08:52 |
Trickster F. wrote:
As a PMS I have to say all of the good Prog-Metal is missing. |
You can add it - it is a wiki.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 08:42 |
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As a PMS I have to say all of the good Prog-Metal is missing.
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sig
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MattiR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1200
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 08:20 |
Goood
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20654
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 07:19 |
Hierophant wrote:
Was this all compiled by yourself? Awesome job. |
Naaah! 
Could never be so anal as to compile such a thing 
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
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