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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:13 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I agree with HT and the previous poster but to be fair I will go band by band:
- Jon Anderson, Mainly an early form of .New Age, poetry or whatever, that's not Prog IMHO, he's OK in Related.
- APP - Fulfills the requirement, two 100% albums (Tales of Mystery and Imagigination plus I Robot) I believe should be in Xover as an exception, but because of his later works, i wouldn't loose my temper if they aren't moved.
- Roxy Music Please, this guys are barely Prog the combination Eno - Ferry is Prog Related at the most.
- Vangelis - Heaven and Hell is Prog, but the rest of his career is mainly New Age, he is OK in Prog Related
Now my central point...What is the problem with Proto Prog? This is a genre, it defines bands that were the link between Psyche and Prog, Procul Harum is a great band, but they definetely fit in the parameters of Proto Prog, no matter how good they arwe, and it's not like Prog Related,...........For me, Proto Prog is already an early stage of Progressive Rock.
The Administrators said that the division of Art Rock wouldn't imply moving artists from Prog Related to a Prog Category, but now seems things are changing?
Or is Crossover going to get all Prog Related bands?
Please we need stable rules
Iván |
Crossover is NOT going to get all of the Prog Related bands. For one, that does not make any sense because not all the bands suggested have Art Rock roots and until I am told otherwise I will treat Crossover as an Progressive Art Rock sub. Secondly, most of the bands in Prog Related are rightfully placed there and are not being suggested for moving so will not move. The bands discussed so far account for the merest fraction of the total.
This thread was started after a suggestion from Guigo (in another thread) that we evaluate some of the bands that were placed in Prog Related limbo pending better genre placement. I do not know which bands he was refering to, so scanned the list looking at bands I do know and made suggestions and comments based upon those. With regard to the bands you have listed, I made broadly similar comments about them in my initial post.
As to Proto-Prog: I have no great feelings or thoughts about these bands, Procul Harum are a definitive Prog band, and could probably fit comfortably in Proto or Crossover, but I have only heard their first 4 albums and none of their later 70s material. On reflection, it probably is better to be a big fish in a small pond but only if people take any interest in the small pond 
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moreitsythanyou
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:15 |
bhikkhu wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
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This is an extremely unfair thing to say, especially to people who WORK hard on behalf of the site. Though I can understand your point of view, personally I am not going to take kindly to anyone who questions my integrity. It is very clear you don't trust us, in spite of what you said in your following post. I am very sorry about that, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my motives again - even though I can't speak for the others. |
I don't think that was directed at a specific person. He said everyone. I also think that this is a valid point. Sometimes we lose objectivity with artists we really like.
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He's right, that is what I meant. Sorry to have offended
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 <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:22 |
Ok Rico Crossover is going to absorb some band AS AN EXCEPTION, but a thread open so everybody adds his/her favorite band is too risky because every person will add one band at least.
Ricop, , if you notice in the thread in which Micky announced Peter Gabriel had a new home, I didn''t said anything in favour, I stayed quiet, I have often said it before but not in that thread because the rules were already stablished, but happened what i feared.
The next post was a request for:
1.- Phil Collins
2.- Mike and the Mechanics
3.- Mike Rutherford
Thye same is happening here, Roxy Music is an icon of Prog related, but already mentioned, the flow will keep comming and the priority of the debates will be about this bands instead of additions of real Prog artists-
Iván
BTW: Micky: The phrase ALL BANDS FROM PROG RELATED is only a figurative speech form called Pleonasm, meaning that probably too many non prog bands that are OK in Prog related will be inducted, we will have lonfg debates and lose the inportant issue of adding new bands and keeping a reliable database filling holes in the bios, photos, etc.
Seems still the main concetrn is to move artists from Prog Related catgory to Prog genres rather than add 100% Prog arists....But at the end, who cares?
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 18 2007 at 13:30
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:29 |
Saying every person who posts in this thread will post a suggestion of a band which to be moved is fine, many people in fact have and share ideas of a band belonging in another genre without existing such a thread for such suggestions - that doesn't mean these suggestions won't be thoroughly processed. I actually remember asking you if you would support Peter Gabriel's move and you said something like "[If Xover happens] sign me up". It's, indeed, tragic that, after PG was moved, many want Collins and Rutherfords and Mike and the Mechanics to be in a prog genre or even related, but that doesn't mean they will be, if they're rejected for those genres.
Edited by Ricochet - November 18 2007 at 13:31
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:30 |
This thread started great and amusing... but like many others is becoming a pain in the neck.
Let's begin with the title: "suggestions... groups to be moved OUT of PR". The bold was added by me. There's no obligations here, no compromises... only suggestions.
As said previously, no band was asked to be moved from Related or Proto since this thread started and if or when it happens, the band will undergo the same rules we are using since the Admin Team took control of these 2 sections: a majority needed to accept the band in those sections or to give them to a real prog genre.
I ask everyone to read this last paragraph. Thanks!
Edited by Atkingani - November 18 2007 at 13:32
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Guigo
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MonkeyphoneAlex
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 234
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:31 |
The Whistler wrote:
WEEN SHOULD BE MOVED TO ART ROCK!!! |
A new category should be made for WEEN!!!!
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"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
-FZ
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:32 |
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damn right it is.... and it gets tiring.... it's like people can't fricking read here.
Edited by micky - November 18 2007 at 13:35
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:41 |
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If the rule I was referring to is more of a myth and it's rather up to the teams to decide whether an artist is eligible for a prog subgenre, then Ivan's evaluations are correct and the only artist I could still think as of a valid suggestion is Jeff Beck (on the account of his Jazz-Rock albums).
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:44 |
If you need a suggestion byv exception I wioll give one and only one.
Alan Parsons Prohject due to Tales, I Robot and in lesser degree to Pyramyds.
Iván
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:46 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If you need a suggestion byv exception I wioll give one and only one.
Alan Parsons Prohject due to Tales, I Robot and in lesser degree to Pyramyds.
Iván |
and we've, as was noted earlier, have had that under Xover eval for some time now.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:48 |
Nice, folks... we have now a bunch of suggestions to be digested in the following days. Let's leave personal tastes behind and think prog.
Evetual requests to be done via PM to the Admin Team for further evaluation. Thanks!
Edited by Atkingani - November 18 2007 at 13:49
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Guigo
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Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
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suggestions.... groups to be moved OUT of
