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Warhol
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 16 2008
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Points: 4
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Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:18 |
For me the greatest musician who was prog-oriented is Frank Zappa, but also I can say King Crimson and Magma are very complex, in an accessible way, because I consider complexity and the level you can listen one band are direct proportionally.
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Erpland316
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Joined: October 30 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 359
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Posted: July 24 2008 at 13:44 |
Technically speaking, Mahavishnu Orchestra by a long shot. Just listen to Birds of Fire, they really are on fire! Groups like Magma and King Crimson are up there too...as well as other jazz fusion groups like Return to Forever. These groups are special because they are beyond technicality (which often turns cheesy very fast i.e. Dream Theater etc.). Their music has soul and muscle to back up the sound!
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"Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary
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sircosick
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Joined: January 29 2007
Location: Chile
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Points: 1264
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Posted: July 29 2008 at 20:38 |
Zappa wasn't always prog. For the properly progressive acts, it gotta be King Crimson. Any aforementioned jazz prog-fusion bands (as Mahavishnu Orchestra and the likes) also deserves a mention.
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The best you can is good enough...
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Big Ears
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Joined: February 08 2005
Location: Hants, England
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Points: 727
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 05:47 |
Dream Theatre, particularly on Systematic Chaos, seem very complex to me - although I do not know much about them. The Beach Boys harmonies are complicated and Todd Rundgren, on Face the Music, replicated them extremely well. Al DiMeola's and Gary Boyle's (jazz-rock) guitar playing is both complex and very fast. For almost irritating complexity I would go for Gentle Giant.
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TempusFugit
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Joined: March 23 2008
Location: Canada
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Posted: September 07 2008 at 13:00 |
Of the prog I've heard, Chocolate Kings (PFM -1975) comes to mind as the most complex album I can think of. When asked about it, the bassman Djivas said it was an exhausting album to make because of its incredible complexity. Chocolate KIngs and Per un Amico are the 2 PFM albums I prefer; Per un Amico is more acoustic, Chocolate Kings has more electric instruments to it and is more intense, but both are incredible.
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
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Points: 1698
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Posted: September 07 2008 at 20:40 |
I know that GG and DT are pretty complex, but the most complex music i've ever heard is by Behold... The Arctopus. I think they're very interesting. It seems like they just pick a tone and a number and make that their notes and time signature. After they're done with that bar, they just do it again. Their ability to memorize such strange and unconventional music astounds me. From what I've heard they're much like Spastic Ink.
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someone_else
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Joined: May 02 2008
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 08:52 |
Gentle Giant. Yes and Frank Zappa also have a high level of complexity.
Maybe there are others whose music is at least as complex in the Jazz Rock/Fusion or the RIO/Avant-prog genres, but I'm not deep in those genres.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 12:24 |
DT has complex moments, but for the most part they have become very formulaic. When speaking in prog- metal terms, there are several bands that are far more complex. Unexpect uses multiple vocalists, keys and RIO textures. In fact, I would call it "Metal in Oposition". Martyr, especially their last album, Feeding the Abscess, makes DT sound like Journey. Chile's Coprofago was extremely complex with Unorthodox Creative Createria, throwing in Holdsworth style jazz sections. And of course, Ron Jarzombek and Spastic Ink. The cool thing about RJ's projects is he explains the meanings behind the complexity and does it w/o inflated ego or condescension. Someone also mentioned Behold...the Arctopus, a fine choice indeed.
The RIO/Avaunt Gard sub-genre has the greatest abundance of complex bands. For pure complexity Zappa is the most consistent. Even when a song has an overall "straight ahead" texture, you can hear underlying complexity. e.g. One Size Fits All, Roxy and Elsewhere. Mr. Bungle, with their "flick of the switch" style changes are also pretty out there. In this sub-genre complexity is very much in the ear of the beholder. Bands like Universe Zero, Captain Beefheart, and The Flying Luttenbachers are outrageously complex, but might lean to far into the dissonant side for many listeners. Even Zappa goes to those places with some of his work, particularly his orchestral pieces like LSO I & II, Yellow Shark.
Jazz/Fusion also has tons of complex bands like Brand X, Return to Forever. Jazz is of course founded on complexity. Even in the 1930's, Raymond Scott was doing some very complex music. (He might fit well in PA)
For Zeuhl I would have to go with (I know some Magma zealot is going to shoot me) KoenjiHyakkei. Amongst other sub-genres, Giant Giant is exceptionally complex, nobody has more vocal complexity. And of course King Crimson, lots of instrumental "talkback" and flighty finger on guitar.
I see people in this thread answering with the more "accessible" bands. Dig deeper if you like complexity. The most complex stuff is not mass produced. For pre-1990, go with bands in the Jazz/Fusion or RIO/Avant genres. Post-1990, Tech/Extreme Metal seems to the best bet if want to hear complexity.
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Forsuna
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 27 2008
Location: OC
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Points: 9
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 15:25 |
Wow, Korn complex? I've heard everything now...
I always thought liquid tension experiment was amazing and complex, along with bands like meshuggah and Rush.
Maybe the new SMV album Thunder? That is a great album i would consider complex.
SMV = Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller, Victor Wooten.
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www.myspace.com/forsuna
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:15 |
Univers Zero and Henry Cow.
Just listen to songs like UZ's 'Dense' or HC's 'Living in the Heart of the Beast'. Now that's complex to me!
However, bands like Meshuggah, Planet X, Spastic Ink, Zappa, GG etc must be noted as well (especially Spastic Ink!!)
Chamber/RIO band Art Zoyd are also another contender for the "most complex" title,
excerpt from review of their Le Mariage du Ciel et de L'Enfer album (taken from Ground and Sky) :
If you think the polyrhythmic activity of King Crimson's "Thrak" was challenging, then sink your flimsy teeth into "Cryogenèse - Rêve Artificiel." Two particular sections come to mind. One is right at the beginning, with accented notes against a (required...believe me) metronome ticking away. Seventeen beats in, the first accented note occurs. This is followed 10 beats later by a double-accent, then a single accent 9 beats after that, and a double accent in-between the 9th and 10th beat after that, before the cycle repeats. Then there's the section that begins at 4:56. Here the metronome clicks off a 31-beat cycle, with accents on the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 12th, 16th, 21st, and 24th beats. After one of their trademark lengthy, dynamic buildups with triplicate polyrhythms and sinister organ chordal washes, the music suddenly gets flushed and the 31-beat pattern played over with a five-beat lag, before everything is eventually overtaken by various animal sounds, lawnmower-like drones, and asthmatic breathing.
Complex enough?
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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Posted: September 10 2008 at 06:19 |
Mike Oldfield's Amarok is pretty complex and Yes's TFTO very definitely!
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b_olariu
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5532
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Posted: September 10 2008 at 07:04 |
Depends, for me complex is Flairck and in the same time Gentle Giant and Symphony X. Each one in his own way. How can you describe complex??? Progressive music in general is complex, at least must be this way.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
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Points: 4160
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Posted: September 10 2008 at 07:22 |
fuxi wrote:
Hey folks! You like complex? Try Discus' brilliant TOT LICHT! It's like RELAYER, ONE SIZE FITS ALL and OF QUEUES AND CURES rolled into one. Thank you! |
Owch, owch! Anything compared with Of Queues and Cures along the lines of complexity must be mind-blowing. I love "system Manipulation"! But I can't get the album...
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: September 10 2008 at 10:24 |
Coming back to this topic, I think I forgot Protest the Hero...hella hard, I try.
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mono
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Paris, France
Status: Offline
Points: 652
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Posted: September 18 2008 at 05:17 |
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects
https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Online
Points: 16851
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Posted: September 19 2008 at 04:06 |
Tapfret wrote:
For Zeuhl I would have to go with (I know some Magma zealot is going to shoot me) KoenjiHyakkei. |
From what I've heard, I think you're right!
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Steve-A
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 26 2008
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 54
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Posted: September 21 2008 at 05:14 |
Roine Stolt (TFK) recently stated that One More Time was "tricky" to play live.
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Jake Kobrin
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 20 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1303
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Posted: September 22 2008 at 02:39 |
Paulieg wrote:
Classic Prog: Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, ELP, etc... tons of good old stuff.
Modern Prog: Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Spiral Architect, Zero Hour, Planet X, Rush, Symphony X, pretty much all prog metal bands. |
Rush is NOT metal!!! Anyone who says that should die.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: September 22 2008 at 08:04 |
Chris Stacey wrote:
Mike Oldfield's Amarok is pretty complex and Yes's TFTO very definitely! |
Did you mean Yes, GFTO ("Going For the One")? Because, I would agree. Even the balladic "Wondrous Stories" is an amazingly complex prog classic ("Awaken" is the all-time great, however...)
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Cthulu
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 29 2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 37
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Posted: September 22 2008 at 08:28 |
TFTO = Tales From Topographic Oceans
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