Jimi Hendrix added to proto-prog |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10381 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 15:15 | ||
^ Most of The Nice's Ars Long Vista Brevis was written by Bach, I guess Bach should be here too??? No way!
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 15:13 | ||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 15:08 | ||
Dave Brubeck's "Blue Rondo a la Turk" can be heard in a number of Prog pieces. He should be here.
Edited by StyLaZyn - April 15 2009 at 15:09 |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 15:04 | ||
hahhaha... SRV??? who brought that up.. .better have not been Ivan. I'll spank his cute ass if he was the one who tried to drag Stevie Ray into this
is that the best people can do to protest an addition.... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 15:01 | ||
I'm starting to wonder if someone needs to mention why Jazz Rock / Fusion is included at PA, and not Jazz.
And here's why - this is a progressive ROCK music site. Therefore musiques that are considered as part of the Rock "scene" can be included in PA if they display a progressive bent or approach. So those who melded jazz & rock influences play jazz rock, in some cases called fusion, as it added other stylings to these two. Thus Miles Davis is here for his Jazz Rock & Fusion albums, not for his straight jazz releases. You may have noticed that Dave Brubeck, Duke Ellington, and Charlie Parker are not. The same way that Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, and Pete Seeger are not in Prog Folk. Others cases in support - Napalm Death is not in Extreme/Tech metal. Motorhead neither. Foreigner is nowhere to be found in crossover. Yanni is not in Symphonic. The John Tesh Experience is not in JZ/F. SO please, claiming that SRV should be here because Jimi is , that is just not a reasonable assumption if you , hopefully, know anything about each's music. Hendrix's influence on SRV was strictly the blues aspect. SRV did not take, nor even pretend to try and build on Jimi's experimentalism. The same way that the Beatles took some pointers from, Buddy Holly. But no one would dare claim that a song like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds came from being influenced by Holly's music. Would they ? So please, apples and washing machines are not meant to be compared , O.K. Edited by debrewguy - April 15 2009 at 15:12 |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:49 | ||
^ not just mind boggling.... just plain wrong.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:48 | ||
StaLaZyn, I didn't say all Prog, I said much Prog. And there are a great many Prog bands, and Prog musicians, that have jazz as an important ingredient/ influence. Others have noted categories where it's prevalent. I mostly listen to RIO/Avant, Canterbury, Zeuhl, and Jazz-Rock, as well as much RPI (plus many from Eclectic that jazz had a significant influence on -- I'd include really big names like Gentle Giant). One of my favourites is symph is one of the big names in Prog, Focus, and you can't tell me that jazz was not significant to their music. One reason why I'm not so keen on Neo-Prog is because I find it lacking in obvious jazz stylings/ elements (though it still owes much to jazz methinks). There are also many progressive rock bands that are on the metal side that incorporate jazz elements (not just dabble).
Jazz had a very significant effect on Prog, which one can find in the music of many of the biggest names names such as Yes, King Crimson, ELP, VdGG, Gentle Giant, Focus etc. I've long looked at Prog in a fairly pure form as rock that was quite dominatly a hybridisation of jazz composition and technique, academic music and rock. Those who complain of noodling in Prog can blame that to quite an extent on the jazz influence. Rhythmically, definitely a common jazz influence (a great many jazzy drummers in Prog). For someone to imply that jazz is not a significant element and/or influence of much Prog just boggles my mind. EDITED for typos. Edited by Logan - April 15 2009 at 14:53 |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:13 | ||
in fact... RPI has..many....many jazz influenced artists within it. It is a distinct ingredient in the soup that makes RPI so tasty.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:10 | ||
Atavachron provided a couple of excellent links to youtube videos of this phenomenal duo if anyone wants to check it out.It`s in the bands under evaluation in the collaborator section. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31165 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:04 | ||
I counter your example of a few hand-picked symph prog bands and prog metal bands with the entire sub-genres of Canterbury, RIO/Avant, and Zeuhl, on which jazz has a profound influence.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 14:00 | ||
Oh, absolutely, but KC isn't every Prog band. Let's not be applying this liberally on Prog. Would you say Jazz is as important to Marillion? Floyd? Genesis? Anekdoten? Symphony X? Dream Theater? It offers some creative outlets but the bulk of the material by these bands is not dependent on Jazz.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:58 | ||
I don't even know why this is an argument for this thread and I don't think the debate will remove Jazz Rock Fusion from the site.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10381 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:46 | ||
^ Listen to any live King Crimson with Bruford, Cross and Wetton lately. Not 'jazz' but definitley jazz fusion.
Edited by Easy Money - April 15 2009 at 13:46 |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:39 | ||
Dabbling in jazz is one thing. An important ingredient would constitute regular usage. I don't see it ubiquitously in Prog. |
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11400 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:31 | ||
Like Cynic; as a very good example of how widespread the jazz influences have been taken. |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:28 | ||
I don't think saying that "Jazz is an important ingredient (and influence) of much prog" is an exaggeration. You'll find jazz stylings in a great deal of music that is included in the archives from various categories. |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:12 | ||
Your right they are Jazz Rock/Fusion which is an acceptable category for prog. No one is trying to put Prog under Jazz no more than we would try and put it under classical. What we recognise is that sometimes Jazz and Rock and Classical and Rock come together and that is prog. Go to any prog site and tell me you cannot find Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever or sometimes Weather Report on the sites? This is a perfectly acceptable form of prog. Gee, go listen to Soundchaser by Yes or Take a Pebble by ELP and hear the jazz influences in these bands. How about Brand X a fusion band with a prog artist ?
Jazz influence over prog is all over the map. Just because some the bands have an American flavor or aanother flavor than Euro and don't use so much symphonic touches doesn't mean the music isn't on par or in the same category. Prog is so diverse even from Rush to Gentle Giant and ELP to Frank Zappa that to deny entry based on a style is not right.
Edited by Garion81 - April 15 2009 at 13:14 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:10 | ||
I'd certainly agree with Ivan on this case... I feel Hendrix had to be here but I still can't hear much of him in later classic prog artists... He, on the other hand, has influenced many musicians in pother genres including newer prog bands... He would fit better in prog-related than in proto-prog.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10381 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 13:05 | ||
^ Not me, if you read my intro you will know that The Experience is clearly part of the early London proto-prog scene (musically and socially) and needed to be added so that PA had a musicologically correct proto-prog section.
I'm not interested in adding too many more people to PA except essential progressive JR/F artists. Edited by Easy Money - April 15 2009 at 13:07 |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: April 15 2009 at 12:48 | ||
This is part of my issue. I feel the website integrity has been compromised and people are wanting to generalize way too much so they can include artists as some type of Prog.
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