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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: October 28 2009 at 17:37 |
 BRIAN STEFFENSEN wrote:
Oh for crying out loud!!! I'm reading such pretentious, 'know it all' "Cod's Wallop", here. I could stop right here and accept your premise that S&G do not produce progressive (not even prog related) music and that my understanding of the term has clearly been wrong for at last 40 years (since I bought my first 'Nice' LP). I could accept that I'm wrong but then I look at the artists you DO include. Has anyone seen some of the stuff that is defined as Prog Related, Proto Prog or Crossover Prog!? ANYTHING, absolutely anything can be found is these categories...DAVID BOWIE!!! Do Not !!...Please, I beg you ...Do Not make me cough up a lung laughing at all this nonsense. I guess that, if you have enough clout on this site, you could get Michael Jackson and Gerry and The Pacemakers included (prog related and proto prog). As for "fettid dingo's kidneys"...please refer to Zaphod Beeblebrox!...er?? You see!! you just don't get it! By the way I didn't start today's outburst! its all that "Stackridge" guy's fault. I had accepted defeat month's ago, and then my old friend has to throw in his (sensible, understandable, reasonable and so bloody well obviously correct) opinion in and the "Poo-Poo extract" most definately hits the fan and then I'm in full RANT mode!! And while I'm at it why isn't Toto on this site as Prog Related??? Oh no, here we bloody well go again! DAVID BOWIE!!? don't make me laugh...and yet here I go...Ha, Ha, Ha Ha!!! and what about the Buzzcocks and Sha Na Na? Kylie Minogue and Bob Dylan?...Oh now I'm being stupid, yes I know!!! but I was serious about Toto! Wow!!! Did I really write all this?NOW! Where the heck did I put by Prozak??? |
 can I get this on a T-shirt? 
One minor point - while Crossover Prog suffers a little from legacy additions into the category once known as Art Rock made long before my time here, we do endeavour to keep it on the right side of the Prog/Not Prog borderline, which is why you see Roger Water's solo sitting one side and David Gilmour peering in from the other, why Radiohead can smugly stare out at Muse's strutting away in PR land and why Japan scratch their heads wondering how Rain Tree Crow got in and they didn't. These flavours may not appeal to you, or make any logical sense, but there is method in our madness and on that you may have to just take my word for it. 
As to Bowie - meh, whether Krautrock inspired Low and Heroes albums alone are enough, or whether the Prog experiments of 'Cygnet Committee' or 'Width Of A Circle' qualify him, there is more to Mr David Robert Jones than a few pop singles and we'll offer Gaskin and Stewart the same courtesy. 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 17:09 |
BRIAN STEFFENSEN wrote:
Hey "Stackridge"!
You could do a bloody marvelous Bio...so please submit one to this excellent "Easy Livin'" Moderator, so that we can get this thing settled (or 'put this puppy to bed' as they say in America)!
Oh and by the way I am assuming that we're adult here and that we can all take a joke as well as the next guy/girl. Let's keep a sense of humour here! I have been called complaining 3 year old, and I welcome that description (better than 56 year old balding Git! anyway).
Brian |
Sorry, but it doesn't quite work like that - a majority vote is required from the Admin team to approve the addition before they can be added. (In Bob's post: " It would need to go to the admin team for approval of course"). While there is nothing wrong in preparing a bio beforehand, it could be a waste of someone's time if we still reject them.
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What?
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 17:08 |
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I understand your point, Brian. There are quite a few bands listed here that, as far as I can tell, have done very little progressive music. I personally don't care who is listed here, as long as the artists I like are here. I S&G were listed, I would have no problem with that. But I still don't think they are prog.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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BRIAN STEFFENSEN
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 30 2008
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 16:36 |
Hey "Stackridge"!
You could do a bloody marvelous Bio...so please submit one to this excellent "Easy Livin'" Moderator, so that we can get this thing settled (or 'put this puppy to bed' as they say in America)!
Oh and by the way I am assuming that we're adult here and that we can all take a joke as well as the next guy/girl. Let's keep a sense of humour here! I have been called complaining 3 year old, and I welcome that description (better than 56 year old balding Git! anyway).
Brian
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BRIAN STEFFENSEN
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 30 2008
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 16:28 |
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Oh for crying out loud!!! I'm reading such pretentious, 'know it all' "Cod's Wallop", here. I could stop right here and accept your premise that S&G do not produce progressive (not even prog related) music and that my understanding of the term has clearly been wrong for at last 40 years (since I bought my first 'Nice' LP). I could accept that I'm wrong but then I look at the artists you DO include. Has anyone seen some of the stuff that is defined as Prog Related, Proto Prog or Crossover Prog!? ANYTHING, absolutely anything can be found is these categories...DAVID BOWIE!!! Do Not !!...Please, I beg you ...Do Not make me cough up a lung laughing at all this nonsense. I guess that, if you have enough clout on this site, you could get Michael Jackson and Gerry and The Pacemakers included (prog related and proto prog). As for "fettid dingo's kidneys"...please refer to Zaphod Beeblebrox!...er?? You see!! you just don't get it! By the way I didn't start today's outburst! its all that "Stackridge" guy's fault. I had accepted defeat month's ago, and then my old friend has to throw in his (sensible, understandable, reasonable and so bloody well obviously correct) opinion in and the "Poo-Poo extract" most definately hits the fan and then I'm in full RANT mode!! And while I'm at it why isn't Toto on this site as Prog Related??? Oh no, here we bloody well go again! DAVID BOWIE!!? don't make me laugh...and yet here I go...Ha, Ha, Ha Ha!!! and what about the Buzzcocks and Sha Na Na? Kylie Minogue and Bob Dylan?...Oh now I'm being stupid, yes I know!!! but I was serious about Toto! Wow!!! Did I really write all this?NOW! Where the heck did I put by Prozak???
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 16:01 |
There could be a case for prog related,but that case needs to be made on the basis of the music alone, not the pedigree. Asia is a classic example of a band made up of 4 prog heavyweights but who in that combination are not a prog band. They are listed as prog related.
From what I recall of S&G, I would probably come out supporting a proposal form Prog Related if someone was willing to prepare the bio etc. It would need to go to the admin team for approval of course.
For any who only recall the single "Busy doing nothing", there was certainly a lot more to S&G than that.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 15:11 |
I have a few of their CDs, and find no prog in them whatsoever.
So there.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 14:24 |
Stackridge wrote:
At a push I would place D&B in the same category as Camel, Rick Wakeman or Renaissance, which just so happens to be Symphonic Prog.
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Respectfully, I see no connection with Camel, Wakeman or Renaissance, so there's no place for G&D in Symphonic.
I agree with Debrewguy's opinion, it's mostly intelligent mainstream, but not Prog, maybe, forcing the issue a bit, Prog Related, but I don't believe they fit in the definition.
Sorry, but this is my honest opinion.
Iván
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 12:53 |
I visited the Canterbury section and I do have more than a few albums that call that sub-genre a home.  (Muffins included)
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 28 2009 at 19:47
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 12:43 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 12:40 |
I can certainly see them not fitting into Canterbury despite the presence of Stewart. I'm still not sure whether I'd advocate for Crossover or Prog-Related. Leaning towards the latter. By the way, what's a US band like the Muffins doing in there? That's not right.  I was about to say we ain't got no Canterburys here in the US, but then I looked it up and we have six, so there. 
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 28 2009 at 12:53
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:44 |
BRIAN STEFFENSEN wrote:
Sorry Padraic!
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Apology accepted. Whether you believe it or not, I really did take a careful listen to the latest cuts from S&G, and they really are not appropriate for Canterbury prog as we have it defined. As that is the only relevant genre of which I am a voting team member, I can safely bow out of this discussion and let the Crossover team members revisit this if they wish.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:31 |
In the Crossover team thread my actual words were:
dean 18 May 2009 at 19:44 wrote:
I'm afraid to say that I'm heading towards a "No" for crossover, but it's difficult to be sure with the material on MySpace with only extracts from their latest (the cover's don't really count, regardless of how well they are done). |
So Gaskin/Stewart were not formally rejected by Crossover, this was before Starti joined the team and without his greater knowledge of the duo. I'm prepared to look at them again.
Edited by Dean - October 28 2009 at 11:32
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:22 |
Padraic wrote:
Thank you Brian. I was actually just thinking of my 3 year old, your post did an admirable job of reminding me of his behavior when he doesn't get his way.
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Thanks for the laugh Pat.  Anyway, from what I've seen while lurking/being active on the forums/website, the collabs give everything a fair listen, and it is possible for music to be good without being prog. If you really want to review it, there are other websites which do include it.
Edited by SaltyJon - October 28 2009 at 11:23
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:21 |
Anyone man enough to say sorry can't be all bad. 
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:20 |
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If they inspire you to come with an expression like fetted dingo's kidney it must be strong stuff.
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BRIAN STEFFENSEN
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 30 2008
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:05 |
Sorry Padraic!
Seriously! I really am appologising. Anyone who gives such great come back can not be all bad. I really had a good laugh. I don't agree that I'm acting like your three year old (unless he/she is incredibly mature, highly intelligent, sophisticated and defastatingly good looking...all of which may well be true), but I think you have a great sense of humour (as I was hoping to demonstrate with my equally cutting replies). Anyway, PLEASE listen to Blue and Green again (maybe twice) Sure there are some 'pop' oftertones, but I can not believe you don't thnik that this music should be on PA somewhere. Also get hold of "New Jerusalem" and tell me that it's just one long pop song!! No, I am sure you will have to admit that this is bloody good Progressive Rock. Come on! Give S&G one more go!!
Thanks
Brian
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BRIAN STEFFENSEN
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 30 2008
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 10:46 |
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Tried being civil. It got us nowhere! Listen to Gaskin and Stewart! I won't post anymore because I will probably get banned! Consider me Censored!!
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BRIAN STEFFENSEN
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 30 2008
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 21
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 10:44 |
Oh Dear!
It would seem I have hit a raw nerve!! Ouch!! I think my original observation it is clearly demonstrated here. It's not worth wasting our time. We're clearly not entitled to our opinion. If we constructively critisise, we are doomed to be represented as spoit brats. I repeat ANYONE who has listened to "Blue and Gree" properly could not agree that they belong on PA. So as I said. we're wasting our time. Gaskin and Stewart create fantastic Progressive Rock. Slartinbartfast knows this, "Stagkridge" definately knows this, BUT we must not make a fuss because others are not prepared to admit they have made an error. Anyway I'm off to the playground to play on the swings, suck my thumb and I scream and cry until I get a lolly pop!
P.S. Maybe you're three year old SHOULD get his own way!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: October 28 2009 at 10:36 |
Personally, I always find constructive discussion tends to go better when toys are kept within the pram and not thrown out; let's keep this civil, people
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 Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Gaskin Stewart surely must be on Prog Archives,
