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Textbook 
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 Topic: Prog's Most Poorly Told Narrative?
Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:07 |
(This is no indication of the music being bad btw, I loved Coheed And Cambria's second and third narrative.)
Many concept albums have a story with characters and settings and events that happen. The degree to which the story is made explicit varies wildly from literal narrative lyrics with sound effects and voices to something like Coheed And Cambria's Amory Wars cycle which has a very detailed story yet basically gives you not the slightest indication of it in the music itself. I suppose this has been done on purpose, Sanchez writing lyrics that suggest the emotional states of character in the story rather than making any attempt to depict the action but it's still a huge failure as narrative and makes the story absolutely irrelevant in my eyes.
I used to really care about the narratives of concept albums but as I've gotten older I've started to care less and less and just focus on the music.
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TheOppenheimer
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:33 |
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there's music and music.
sometimes you have to focus on the narrative, sometimes on the singing, sometimes on the music, sometimes on the mood/ambient.
as far as music as an art goes, its impossible to tell whether one piece is better than other.
you may happen to find a lot of people disliking something, but it means almost nothing.
in my opinion, i find coheed and cambria a bit far from prog, and i dont like their songs.
on the other hand, i love the narratives of rush and early yes.
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A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio.
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Triceratopsoil
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:34 |
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I think Rockpommel's Land is probably the worst prog narrative ever
Edited by Triceratopsoil - August 11 2010 at 22:34
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Isa
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:48 |
I'm sure there's many worse out there. That one's pretty horrible though! 
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The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities.
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Alitare
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:19 |
 TheOppenheimer wrote:
there's music and music.
sometimes you have to focus on the narrative, sometimes on the singing, sometimes on the music, sometimes on the mood/ambient.
as far as music as an art goes, its impossible to tell whether one piece is better than other.
you may happen to find a lot of people disliking something, but it means almost nothing.
in my opinion, i find coheed and cambria a bit far from prog, and i dont like their songs.
on the other hand, i love the narratives of rush and early yes.
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You mean 2112? You mean AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH? You mean, Neil "Let's butcher contemporary philosophy" Peart? Come on, buddy! 
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Alitare
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:23 |
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Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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InClouds
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Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:26 |
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well?
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chopper
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 06:50 |
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Tarkus, hmm. Never quite been able to relate the lyrics to the cover art.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 06:54 |
chopper wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Tarkus, hmm. Never quite been able to relate the lyrics to the cover art. |
Thats because there is no realtion.
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chopper
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 07:33 |
Snow Dog wrote:
chopper wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Tarkus, hmm. Never quite been able to relate the lyrics to the cover art. |
Thats because there is no realtion. |
that would explain it
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 07:44 |
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It's tough to concentrate on storytelling when your main interest is the music. You need basic music to support a strong story line. Like in Bob Dylan's mid 70s albums.
The Lamb is a happy exception, I think (but it still gets a lot of flack because many people don't like the short song lengths and sonic experiments they've tried in order to support the narration).
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Alitare
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 08:56 |
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Mr. Maestro
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:12 |
Alitare wrote:
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Rush isn't supposed to make you cry. 
Edited by Mr. Maestro - August 12 2010 at 11:13
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"I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...."
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Snow Dog
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:15 |
Tommy and Quadrephenia are pretty poor. The stories seem to get confusing at the end,
2112 however is very good. A story simply told.
The Lamb is also very good. You klnow exactly whats happening.
Edited by Snow Dog - August 12 2010 at 11:16
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Vompatti
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:16 |
Mr. Maestro wrote:
Alitare wrote:
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Rush isn't supposed to make you cry. |
Rush is one of my favourite bands, but I can't say 2112 is a very strong album lyrically or musically, especially if compared to Hemispheres or Permanent Waves.
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Alitare
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:28 |
Vompatti wrote:
Mr. Maestro wrote:
Alitare wrote:
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Rush isn't supposed to make you cry. |
Rush is one of my favourite bands, but I can't say 2112 is a very strong album lyrically or musically, especially if compared to Hemispheres or Permanent Waves.
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Wait a sec, though. Isn't Permanent waves the one with Jacob's Ladder? The clouds prepare for battle In the dark and brooding silence Bruised and sullen storm clouds Have the light of day obscured Looming low and ominous In twilight premature Thunder heads are rumbling In a distant overture... All at once, the clouds are parted Light streams down in bright unbroken beams... Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams..." You're telling me THIS is good poetry? 
Edited by Alitare - August 12 2010 at 11:28
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Mr. Maestro
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:29 |
Alitare wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
Mr. Maestro wrote:
Alitare wrote:
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Rush isn't supposed to make you cry. |
Rush is one of my favourite bands, but I can't say 2112 is a very strong album lyrically or musically, especially if compared to Hemispheres or Permanent Waves.
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The clouds prepare for battle
In the dark and brooding silence
Bruised and sullen storm clouds
Have the light of day obscured
Looming low and ominous
In twilight premature
Thunder heads are rumbling
In a distant overture...
All at once, the clouds are parted
Light streams down in bright unbroken beams...
Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams..."
You're telling me THIS is good poetry?
Wait a sec, though. Isn't Permanent waves the one with Jacob's Ladder?
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Yes, that is good poetry. Good enough for me, at least.
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"I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...."
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Vompatti
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:32 |
Mr. Maestro wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
Mr. Maestro wrote:
Alitare wrote:
InClouds wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle.
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Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well? |
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'.
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Rush isn't supposed to make you cry. |
Rush is one of my favourite bands, but I can't say 2112 is a very strong album lyrically or musically, especially if compared to Hemispheres or Permanent Waves.
|
The clouds prepare for battle
In the dark and brooding silence
Bruised and sullen storm clouds
Have the light of day obscured
Looming low and ominous
In twilight premature
Thunder heads are rumbling
In a distant overture...
All at once, the clouds are parted
Light streams down in bright unbroken beams...
Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams..."
You're telling me THIS is good poetry?
Wait a sec, though. Isn't Permanent waves the one with Jacob's Ladder?
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Yes, that is good poetry. Good enough for me, at least.
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It's not poetry, it's a lyric for a song. It works perfectly with the music, which is what it's meant to do.
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VanVanVan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 756
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:47 |
Alitare wrote:
TheOppenheimer wrote:
there's music and music.
sometimes you have to focus on the narrative, sometimes on the singing, sometimes on the music, sometimes on the mood/ambient.
as far as music as an art goes, its impossible to tell whether one piece is better than other.
you may happen to find a lot of people disliking something, but it means almost nothing.
in my opinion, i find coheed and cambria a bit far from prog, and i dont like their songs.
on the other hand, i love the narratives of rush and early yes.
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You mean 2112? You mean AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH? You mean, Neil "Let's butcher contemporary philosophy" Peart? Come on, buddy!
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To be fair, Rand's philosophy pretty much comes pre-butchered. 
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"The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen
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Alitare
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Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
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Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:51 |
VanVanVan wrote:
Alitare wrote:
TheOppenheimer wrote:
there's music and music.
sometimes you have to focus on the narrative, sometimes on the singing, sometimes on the music, sometimes on the mood/ambient.
as far as music as an art goes, its impossible to tell whether one piece is better than other.
you may happen to find a lot of people disliking something, but it means almost nothing.
in my opinion, i find coheed and cambria a bit far from prog, and i dont like their songs.
on the other hand, i love the narratives of rush and early yes.
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You mean 2112? You mean AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH? You mean, Neil "Let's butcher contemporary philosophy" Peart? Come on, buddy!
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To be fair, Rand's philosophy pretty much comes pre-butchered. |
Yeah, her philosophy might suck wrinkled teat, but I don't read her for her philosophy, I read her for her plots. Just like I don't listen to Rush for their lyrics, I don't listen to Rush at all.
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Prog's Most Poorly Told Narrative?
