The genius of Krzysztof Penderecki

^ not sure I would suggest this music as a therapy to treat pateints with bipolar disorder...

Listening to "the dream of Jacob" : makes me want to go out and kill the first person I meet...

Henry Plainview wrote: Why is is that people feel comfortable calling avant-garde fans snobs and fakes,

I'm sure you have your own thoughts about that (feel free to share).

People prefers to think of others as the idiot or a fake, before admitting their own insufficiencies. I've done that myself.

lucas wrote: And yes, Krzysztof Penderecki is pure sh*t (too much hype because there are too much snobs who claim that they listen to music full of emotion while it's only noise or distorted sounds : other composers like Jacques Ibert play beautiful music but stay in the shadow), with comparison to Fryderyk Chopin, just like Pierre Boulez is pure rubbish with comparison to Claude Debussy.   Open your ears : There is too much garbage in contemporary music.

I have no intention of defending contemporary music in general. 90% of what I find leaves me cold. I'm talking about Penderecki because to me its obvious that he sticks out. Sorry for getting all emotional when I hear Threnody or Dies Irae. I'm didn't know I was just fooling myself. But I would never claim that's how I feel when listening to Polymorphia or Partita. Is this "emotion" thing what music must be about all the time? Not to my ears. the two latter compositions are complex soundworlds to be enjoyed for its richness, ideas and genuine otherness alone. More like Zappa or Bartok, than the creators of beautiful music.

 I actually find it offensive that you question my sincerity. Music is my obsession, I listen to it while working all day every day. I've opened my ears to Penderecki and whatever you hear in it, its not garbage. Understand that if people look for, want and find different things in music than yourself, it doesn't have to be "fake". If not, take your issues and aggression elsewhere.

Btw: Did you know that for the last 35 years Penderecki has composed in a traditional, late romantic style? Some of it is really beautiful and moving, and some of it is depressingly boring. Try Concerto for Cello and Orchestra. I would have guessed Mahler if I didn't know better.

lucas wrote: Rocktopus wrote: ^Well, Penderecki being from Poland is beside the point. This isn't a polish composer competition-thread. And not liking something because of too much hype is as silly as falling for a hype. Give him a listen istead of sticking to your absurd desicion that Chopin "beats" him. (And if there's anyone that gets too much undeserved hype, its Krzysztof Kiesvlowski) Kieślowski. He was not a musician, but a movie-maker, don't really see why you cite him. And he made some excellent movies, not the ones with the french actress, but the ones he did in Poland, Short Working Day (Krótki dzień pracy 1981) or The Decalogue (Dekalog 1988). Of course, you talk about him, without having seen these movies...   And yes, Krzysztof Penderecki is pure sh*t (too much hype because there are too much snobs who claim that they listen to music full of emotion while it's only noise or distorted sounds : other composers like Jacques Ibert play beautiful music but stay in the shadow), with comparison to Fryderyk Chopin, just like Pierre Boulez is pure rubbish with comparison to Claude Debussy.   Open your ears : There is too much garbage in contemporary music.

Edited by Noak - August 26 2010 at 09:56

^Well, Penderecki being from Poland is beside the point. This isn't a polish composer competition-thread. And not liking something because of too much hype is as silly as falling for a hype. Give him a listen istead of sticking to your absurd desicion that Chopin "beats" him.

(And if there's anyone that gets too much undeserved hype, its Krzysztof Kiesvlowski)

Apsalar wrote: Thanks for the all the recommendations. I'll follow up on them in time; its best to digest things slowly with these type of guys.

Indeed. Just one more vocalreccomendation. The slightly transitional piece; Magnificat composed in 1974. Up there with Dies Irae, imo.



(its all there in five parts, or so)

Thanks for the all the recommendations. I'll follow up on them in time; its best to digest things slowly with these type of guys.

Apsalar wrote: Do you have any suggestions on say three discs to start with? Or is that covered in the rym list you spoke of? I'd be interested in some of the vocal stuff. I've been listening to a considerable amount of Opera recently (from my two favourite composers); if they can even be call opera's anymore...

Vocal: I only know, and can only reccomend sacred work and not opera:

Dies Irae (the version I link to is my favorite version. Polymorphia and De Natura Sonoris on the B-side. A perfect LP, but hard to find. Naxos version is also very good, but its paired with 50 minutes of dull, recent stuff.

Utrenja which Naxos has a brilliant release/recording. Should be easy to find. The truly nightmarish choir parts and sounds when poor Wendy runs around the halls of Overlook Hotel and sees ghosts in Kubrick's The Shining, is taken from here.



Ain't it something? This version is probably the ultimate. But I don't have it.

The seven minute long Stabat Mater is also sublime. Make sure its the one from 1962, and not just a part of the 75 minute long St. Luke Passion from 1965 (Which is my least favorite among my favorites, but the most popular/known) Stay away from everything vocally composed after 1975.

As for the rest: The EMI CD's Matrix 5 and Matrix 17 covers his early period nicely, but far from complete (or perfect) and ecxept Canticum Canticorum Salomonis which is more than ok, but not among my real favorite choral works, all orchestral. It doesn't really matter if you buy collections, because all the compositions are presented in full. And the "originals" are just collections of compositions anyway.

The best reccomendation is still to listen to clips and hunt down any release that has most of what you enjoy. 

Partita, haven't listened to it in a while, nice hearing it again.