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Posted: October 08 2010 at 04:13
Mahler is for Bruno Walter, he knows how to play it, he was Mahler's assistant in Hamburg, I think Bernstein's strength is Mendelssohn, Bartók and Bernstein. Bruno Walter is good in Brahms too, like Böhm, Karajan, Sawallisch, Klemperer, Sanderling etc. But Brahms is remembered by me for his piano pieces, mostly variations (Julius Katchen and Claudio Arrau is unstoppable in them, though the Kisszin-one is also great), though his Haydn-variations for orchestra is also superb, I have it several times in my collection with Walter, Sanderling, Mackerras, Klemperer, and two piano version as well played by Argerich and Rabinovich.
Mindez elmúlt. Ma már tudom köszönteni a szépséget.
Joined: May 28 2005
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 06:45
I think Bernstein's interpretation of Mahler's 9th is unsurpassed. you should see him talk about it in his lectures on music; when he talks about the 9th movement he quotes Mahler's notes on it in German: "ganz langsam, ersterbend" ("very slowly, dying away"), and his face has a dreamy expression as he says this. that 4th moverment n the uinterpretation of Bernstein is what I wish to be played at my funeral
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 09:52
No Dvorak???
let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 11:42
People, you should watch "The Little Drummer Boy", a documentary where Bernstein talks about Mahler and the relation of his music to his own emotional states. Excellent... Nobody understood Mahler like Lenny.
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 16:06
Hi,
This is a tough question ... I would think that an Italian like Puccini/Verdi would be more important, the reason being that a lot of those operas are massive on "melody" ... and defined it much better than had been done before.
Stravinsky, is a favorite of mine, and he would be the God for the 20th century, because he did with music what no one thought was possible, and in fact, when "The Rite of Spring" was first performed, it was trashed ... as were Petrouschka and the Firebird Suite. And of course, by the time that Leonard Bernstein got a handle on it ... it was over ... Stravinsky was fine ... it also helped that a cartoonist with a funny sense of humor had the brainstorm to put dancing hippos and alligators and and everything else ... which was a good idea to help people pick up and understand Stranvinsky ... it was hard to do if you were comparing it to the rest of music (just like here with "progressive" btw!), but if you took that reference out and merely appreciated what was there, the music all of a sudden stood out and became more important. I've always called this the "cubism" in music ... for fun!
The hard/weird part for me, is the appreciation for Bach and Beethoven. Bach, was, for all intents and purposes the very first DAW that was ever created, and helped cement a "requirement" in music that tied it to the meter and the composition ... the format of which is still used today, and over 90% of all the music that you and I listen to is ... controlled by those formats and precepts.
I remember a film ... "Isaac Stern Goes to China" ... and highly recommend it ... but there is a moment in there that shows one thing ... that is actually something else, but it does have it, and goes back to Bach ... one of the kids says that the music sounded "industrial" ... and the term then, was more a reference to the repetitive nature of the music itself and its themes, just like a machine ... if one dismisses the obviously politically charged nature of the comment -- the kids' parents/teachers against western culture and arts!
Both Bach and Mozart are "mechanical" for me. And I find that Mozart was probably trying to break that up a bit to get rid of the monotony, and is very well displayed in the movie "Amadeus" ... yes it's a movie but the idea is the same ... be it too many notes, or ... Salieri saying ... that would not be correct ... and Mozart saying just type it! ... and of course, years later ... it is right and fine!
It is strange how people look at music ... for me it's not a pillow, but can be! It's not viagra, but can be! It's not Darvocet, but can be! It's not a dream, but can be! And sometimes, it doesn't matter who did it ... which tells you that there is something inside us that "wakes up" which allows all of us ... to appreciate something ... and the inevitable question is ... is it you or the other person (or music, or ... )?
Edited by moshkito - October 08 2010 at 16:12
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: May 28 2005
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 16:42
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
This is a tough question ... I would think that an Italian like Puccini/Verdi would be more important, the reason being that a lot of those operas are massive on "melody" ... and defined it much better than had been done before.
Stravinsky, is a favorite of mine, and he would be the God for the 20th century, because he did with music what no one thought was possible, and in fact, when "The Rite of Spring" was first performed, it was trashed ... as were Petrouschka and the Firebird Suite. And of course, by the time that Leonard Bernstein got a handle on it ... it was over ... Stravinsky was fine ... it also helped that a cartoonist with a funny sense of humor had the brainstorm to put dancing hippos and alligators and and everything else ... which was a good idea to help people pick up and understand Stranvinsky ... it was hard to do if you were comparing it to the rest of music (just like here with "progressive" btw!), but if you took that reference out and merely appreciated what was there, the music all of a sudden stood out and became more important. I've always called this the "cubism" in music ... for fun!
The hard/weird part for me, is the appreciation for Bach and Beethoven. Bach, was, for all intents and purposes the very first DAW that was ever created, and helped cement a "requirement" in music that tied it to the meter and the composition ... the format of which is still used today, and over 90% of all the music that you and I listen to is ... controlled by those formats and precepts.
I remember a film ... "Isaac Stern Goes to China" ... and highly recommend it ... but there is a moment in there that shows one thing ... that is actually something else, but it does have it, and goes back to Bach ... one of the kids says that the music sounded "industrial" ... and the term then, was more a reference to the repetitive nature of the music itself and its themes, just like a machine ... if one dismisses the obviously politically charged nature of the comment -- the kids' parents/teachers against western culture and arts!
Both Bach and Mozart are "mechanical" for me. And I find that Mozart was probably trying to break that up a bit to get rid of the monotony, and is very well displayed in the movie "Amadeus" ... yes it's a movie but the idea is the same ... be it too many notes, or ... Salieri saying ... that would not be correct ... and Mozart saying just type it! ... and of course, years later ... it is right and fine!
It is strange how people look at music ... for me it's not a pillow, but can be! It's not viagra, but can be! It's not Darvocet, but can be! It's not a dream, but can be! And sometimes, it doesn't matter who did it ... which tells you that there is something inside us that "wakes up" which allows all of us ... to appreciate something ... and the inevitable question is ... is it you or the other person (or music, or ... )?
you should watch Bernstein's lectures on Bach at YouTube; it will teach you to listen to Bach differently. at the beginning of the lecture Bernstein mentions that some people find Bach mechanical and even admits that he used to belong to these people too before studying the works of Bach, he is then demonstrating that Bach is anything but that. watch it; it is highly instructive, and it will help you appreciate the music of Bach. he is the grand master of them all
Edited by BaldJean - October 08 2010 at 16:49
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 18:34
BaldJean wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
This is a tough question ... I would think that an Italian like Puccini/Verdi would be more important, the reason being that a lot of those operas are massive on "melody" ... and defined it much better than had been done before.
Stravinsky, is a favorite of mine, and he would be the God for the 20th century, because he did with music what no one thought was possible, and in fact, when "The Rite of Spring" was first performed, it was trashed ... as were Petrouschka and the Firebird Suite. And of course, by the time that Leonard Bernstein got a handle on it ... it was over ... Stravinsky was fine ... it also helped that a cartoonist with a funny sense of humor had the brainstorm to put dancing hippos and alligators and and everything else ... which was a good idea to help people pick up and understand Stranvinsky ... it was hard to do if you were comparing it to the rest of music (just like here with "progressive" btw!), but if you took that reference out and merely appreciated what was there, the music all of a sudden stood out and became more important. I've always called this the "cubism" in music ... for fun!
The hard/weird part for me, is the appreciation for Bach and Beethoven. Bach, was, for all intents and purposes the very first DAW that was ever created, and helped cement a "requirement" in music that tied it to the meter and the composition ... the format of which is still used today, and over 90% of all the music that you and I listen to is ... controlled by those formats and precepts.
I remember a film ... "Isaac Stern Goes to China" ... and highly recommend it ... but there is a moment in there that shows one thing ... that is actually something else, but it does have it, and goes back to Bach ... one of the kids says that the music sounded "industrial" ... and the term then, was more a reference to the repetitive nature of the music itself and its themes, just like a machine ... if one dismisses the obviously politically charged nature of the comment -- the kids' parents/teachers against western culture and arts!
Both Bach and Mozart are "mechanical" for me. And I find that Mozart was probably trying to break that up a bit to get rid of the monotony, and is very well displayed in the movie "Amadeus" ... yes it's a movie but the idea is the same ... be it too many notes, or ... Salieri saying ... that would not be correct ... and Mozart saying just type it! ... and of course, years later ... it is right and fine!
It is strange how people look at music ... for me it's not a pillow, but can be! It's not viagra, but can be! It's not Darvocet, but can be! It's not a dream, but can be! And sometimes, it doesn't matter who did it ... which tells you that there is something inside us that "wakes up" which allows all of us ... to appreciate something ... and the inevitable question is ... is it you or the other person (or music, or ... )?
you should watch Bernstein's lectures on Bach at YouTube; it will teach you to listen to Bach differently. at the beginning of the lecture Bernstein mentions that some people find Bach mechanical and even admits that he used to belong to these people too before studying the works of Bach, he is then demonstrating that Bach is anything but that. watch it; it is highly instructive, and it will help you appreciate the music of Bach. he is the grand master of them all
Baldjean is talking about Bernstein's "Omnibus", a series of programs that aired in public tv here in the USA in the 50's. I just watched all of them on dvd (i bought it recently) and it's great (except the one on American Comedy theater...). His insights on Bach are great. He gives examples of what he founds as magnificent in the Matthaus Passion. As Baldjean said, he even said he didn't like Bach at all at first (lack of dynamics, lack of that typical "drama" that people without listening clerly might thing his music lacks) but then the magic was revealed in all its glory. Bach is the grand master of all music.
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 18:39
From this list, Stravinsky, without a doubt. If you had included some of the funnier ones like Scelsi, Penderecki or Schnittke it might have been a little harder for me.
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Posted: October 08 2010 at 23:47
Mozart wrote amazing works that spanned the breadth of all areas of Classical composition (operas, symphonies, concertos, and chamber music) and he was a virtuoso keyboardist therefore he's my choice. It makes me sad to think how much more this genius could have contributed if his life had not been so tragically short.
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Posted: October 09 2010 at 03:59
Sean Trane wrote:
No Dvorak???
Of course! The Symphony of all symphonies, conducted by The Conductor!
Edited by Gandalff - October 09 2010 at 14:36
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Posted: October 09 2010 at 14:16
Noak wrote:
From this list, Stravinsky, without a doubt. If you had included some of the funnier ones like Scelsi, Penderecki or Schnittke it might have been a little harder for me.
Three of the funniest guys ever. Scelsi is a gem and Penderecki is (or was) a genius.
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Joined: February 06 2004
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Posted: October 09 2010 at 16:27
All the composers listed are great.
Scarlatti is mostly known for his sonatas, but his stabat mater is truly exceptional.
Verdi and Puccini are mainly known for their operas, but they wrote, together with Rossini, some of the best pages of sacred music.
One can regret not a single of the french Baroque representatives are listed : Rameau, Marais, Ste-Colombe, Forqueray, Couperin, Charpentier, Lully, Campra, Delalande...
Ste-Colombes's "concertos ŕ 2 violes égales" are SUBLIME.
Viola di gamba became soon one of my favourite instruments in classical music.
And where is Vivaldi ? Some people here might soon become interested in this composer thanks to this :
Edited by lucas - October 10 2010 at 07:41
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Posted: October 09 2010 at 19:14
I'd like to mention some early Italian composers, like Girolamo Frescobaldi or Carlo Gesualdo; the latter murdered his wife and her lover after catching them in flagranto delicvti and repented for it with beautiful madrigals: Frescobaldi:
Gesualdo:
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted: October 10 2010 at 14:02
:) I'm not surprised Stravinsky leads this poll and Mozart is way below since first mentioned is the eclectic progger amongst the classical composers and Mozart more like the pop artist (without wanting to be disrespectful here). And so it's no surprise that progfans vote like this.
My personal fav is Edvard Grieg mainly because of his ambient achievements (the man's music breathes Norway really). Beethoven and Tsjaikovsky are brilliant as well.
Joined: May 28 2005
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Posted: October 10 2010 at 14:07
progrules wrote:
:) I'm not surprised Stravinsky leads this poll and Mozart is way below since first mentioned is the eclectic progger amongst the classical composers and Mozart more like the pop artist (without wanting to be disrespectful here). And so it's no surprise that progfans vote like this.
My personal fav is Edvard Grieg mainly because of his ambient achievements (the man's music breathes Norway really). Beethoven and Tsjaikovsky are brilliant as well.
anyone who sees Mozart as a pop artist among the classical composers has no idea about Mozart at all. his operas, for example,are deep character studies. "Don Giovanni" is my favorite opera because of these incredibly deep character studies. what works of Mozart do you know to utter this judgment, a judgment that any classical musician would heavily disagree with? this is pop?
or this? this was highly avant-garde at its time!
Edited by BaldJean - October 10 2010 at 14:27
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Classical Composers
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. Bruno Walter is good in Brahms too, like Böhm, Karajan, Sawallisch, Klemperer, Sanderling etc. But Brahms is remembered by me for his piano pieces, mostly variations (Julius Katchen and Claudio Arrau is unstoppable in them, though the Kisszin-one is also great), though his Haydn-variations for orchestra is also superb, I have it several times in my collection with Walter, Sanderling, Mackerras, Klemperer, and two piano version as well played by Argerich and Rabinovich.
???
moshkito wrote:
