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topographicbroadways View Drop Down
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Points: 5575 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greek Mythology In 70's prog
    Posted: December 30 2010 at 19:07
In the classic british prog scene Greek Mythology seems to be a hot subject for conceptual lyrics, particularly Genesis. King Crimson and Yes also contains plenty of Greek Mythology references. Why was this such a popular subject for prog at the time ? 

Most prog stars of this time did of course come from similar backgrounds of private education where things like Greek and Latin mythology would have been taught heavily so maybe this is just it.


Rush did of course use some Greek mythology in their work but i get the feeling they were following the lead of the others, even though Neil Peart is a literature enthusiast (not an insult of Rush by the wayWink)

what are other peoples thoughts on why it might have appeared in so much early prog work? and any other examples of it in 70's prog
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 19:25
Aphrodite's Daughter is an obvious example, even though their albums had little to do with mythology.

There is also Anyone's Daughter's debut album Adonis and many bands that did pieces based on Greek stories (mythos), such as Dixie Dreg did with Odyssey.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 19:54
For what it's worth, many of the bands that worked the road in the central U.S. had a strange inclination to go for Greek mythology names.  Think of Aphrodite (which later became Stray Dog).  And yes there was Perseus and Odin's Earth Opera (ok, so Nordic names were popular as well Big smile).  Obviously, this is just names of bands; you can imagine their lyrical bent.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 21:41
Dixie Dregs did something on the Odyssey???
 
............................................
 
Maybe your correct but offhand I cant think of YES or King Crimson doing much along lines of Greek mythology.
(how come I get the feeling Im gonna regret this?)


Edited by Baggra - December 30 2010 at 21:44
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Points: 5575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 23:08
Originally posted by Baggra Baggra wrote:


 
Maybe your correct but offhand I cant think of YES or King Crimson doing much along lines of Greek mythology.
(how come I get the feeling Im gonna regret this?)

Crimson had in the wake of Poseidon but you are right i can't think of any Yes ones but i do remember some mention of Jon Anderson referencing it subtly in some of his lyrics
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 23:09

Your question is an easy one to answer:

Prog always had a strong affinity towards fantasy - particularly EPIC fantasy. And whose gonna argue against fact that prog is about delusions of grandeur (Deluge Grander)? And whats grander than the Heroic Tale?

And what is fertile ground for the hero tale? Well, not merely Greek/Roman, but also the Eddas, Kaluvala,Nibelungenlied,Maginobion,Tain,Gilgamesh... All these were avidly mined by Prog.

And its not , of course, limited to just the UK. Its prog worldwide.

France - (the bandnames) Eros, Arachnoid, Skryvania

Germany - Minotaurus, Thanatos, Tritonious, Triumvirat,Ikarus, Zeus Amusement

Italy - Leviathan, Dedalus

Greece - Socrates, Ikarus, Aphrodites Child

(UK - Comus,Pallas,Amphion)
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 23:11
I think YES has it in "Turn of the Century"  because, although you cant really tell from the lyrics, its somehow connected to Pygmalion (albiet thru a Bernard Shaw filter.).
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 04:28
Originally posted by topographicbroadways topographicbroadways wrote:

Originally posted by Baggra Baggra wrote:


 
Maybe your correct but offhand I cant think of YES or King Crimson doing much along lines of Greek mythology.
(how come I get the feeling Im gonna regret this?)

Crimson had in the wake of Poseidon but you are right i can't think of any Yes ones but i do remember some mention of Jon Anderson referencing it subtly in some of his lyrics

King Crimson also have the line "Here Odysseus charmed for dark Circe fell" on "Islands"


Edited by BaldJean - December 31 2010 at 04:28


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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 05:06
I'm from Greece as you know.I like some greek bands.I care a little about greek mythology.(and greek philosophy).But generally don't appeal me any mythology(of course I must say that indeed the greek civilization was great).But ancient greeks was destroying this wisdom  with their extreme progressive minds and their democratic spirit.
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 07:30
Darryl Way's Wolf have a song called "Anteros". in Greek mythology Eros is the God of love and Anteros is the God of requited love


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Points: 34099 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 08:20
Procol Harum - Wreck of the hesperus




Edited by aginor - December 31 2010 at 08:21
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 08:25
You ask "why Greek Mythology".
Well, there is this good movie made - so bleeding good that I forgot any of the actors in it and the movie title (and its driving me insane).
Like all the best movies, its concerned with honour.
 
Its about this private school for sons of rich knobs - young men which much is expected of -,future politician-b*****ds and the like.
 
And ,right off the bat, their main study is a course on Greek Mythology. The spoiled brats cant understand this. One questions the professor - why are we, who may one day rule the world ,being taught this juvenile drivel and not Economics or....Mass Deception.
 
And the professor gives this wonderful speech why the study of GM is necessary for the cultivation of Mastermen (like yours truely).
 
I wish I could quote this - but, like I say, I forgot all.
 
All that I remember is that these 3 student friends become big shots in the world and ,as a lark, they decide to throw a greek quiz  in front of a large audience (at the political inaugeration of one of these Mastermen) inviting the old schoolteacher to ask the question .
Now the schoolmaster is very noble & honest and he finds out that the American would-be worldleader is cheating at this "fun" quiz (as he cheated throughout university). But ,also he takes note of how much the devil-father of this American devilpolitician son is beaming with pride and how public humiliation of his son would kill him.
There is a tie between the devilson and a former (honest) richknob classmate (who happens to be of Indian extraction).
Even though the honorable professor remains mum and doesnt reveal the machinations of the devil-American, the Indian (who always had remarkable memory) answers the question correctly - a question, of course, relating to the Greek course the professor taught ages ago whilst they were still youngmen. (The question happens to be the very first question the proffessor asked those students way back then.)
 
So, honesty and goodness wins out in the end - even though the Americandevil shrugs it all off and goes on to become a likely a major world-shaker (and ruiner).
 
NOW I remember - the actor playing the defeated (  but upright) professor is Kevin Kline. (Ive never liked ANY of his films, but THIS is a good one.
 
If only I could remember the title.
 
 
 
Speaking of bad memory, it took a while, but, if anyone is interested, some more band names with Greek/Roman myth reference:
 
Agamemnon (Spanish and, I believe German? band)
Apollo (Finland)
Atlantis (Dutch???)
Hades (Sweden)
Hybris (swede fusion)
Proteus (US fusion)
Lethe - great Dutch band   lp is quite rare. (Of course, the Masterman has it!)
Calliope (Italy)
Rhesus (fr fusion)
Thalassa (germ)
Poseidon (germon)
Triton (newish prog band - I forget the country, probably Italy)
Aires (It)
Spartacus (Germ)
Amphitryte (UK?)
Electra (East Germ)
Praxis (Mexico)
Dionysos (Can)
Iris (fr)
Pan (spain)
Pluto (UK)
Hypnos 69
Momus (great artist, but not prog)
 
And let us not forget the prog band Cassiopea (as well as the sh*t fusion one)
 
 
Oh - also David Allan & Euturpe (Australia)
 
 
...
 
You want a list of specific song titles? Baggs the MasterProgGuru got tons:
Godfrey - fall of Hyperion
Marsupilami - Arena
Triumvirat- Spartacus
Pascal Languirand - Minos
Renaissance - Midas man
Comus - Diana
Gatto Marte -DanaeRose -taste of Neptune
Secret Oyster - Leda & the dog
Japanese wotsit group - Leda & the swan
Manfred Mann Earthband - Pluto the dog
Quasar Lux Symphony - march of argonauts
Chase - Zeus suite
Trip- Caronte
Lucifer's Friend- Satyr's Dance
david Bedford - Scylla & Charbidis
Mike Oldfield - Incantations 4th movement
ELP - 3 fates
Kansas -Ikarus suite
Macdonald & Giles - birdman
Spontaneous Combustion - Pan
Paul Roland -Atlantis
Curved Air - Elfin boy
Jeannie Lewis -freefall from featherless flight (Australia, lp I just recently found)
Fit & Limo - Pan
Genesis - Hermaphroditus (son of gods) wotsit, Lamia, etc etc
Procol Harum -Cerdes
 
 
VA "The Odyssey" super 3cd set from Colossus
VA "Colossus of Rhodes"
Wakeman "7 wonders of the world"
 
"Ulysses Suite" that 2lp set (with pale blue coverart)  by some US band, I forget - Ulysses maybe??
 
 
 
Whose The Man?
BAGGS!!!
 
   
 
 
 
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 08:35
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Points: 34099 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 08:36
can the movie be Dead Poet Society with Robbin Williams and Matt Damon , just a wild guess

from not such a great,  not brilliant Aginor -creator of evil and hiddious monsters, pluss all other shadowlurking spawn of evil


Edited by aginor - December 31 2010 at 08:37
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Thanks Romania!:
Emperor's Club   it is.
 
Now find me that quote why deep study of Greek Mythology is necessary toward becoming a  masterman.
 
 
Speaking of mastermen, I wish you all to pick yourselves up by the bootstaps, stand up straight with chest out, and proudly proclaim,
 
 "Baggs is THE MAN!" 
 


Edited by Baggra - December 31 2010 at 09:04
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Points: 546 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 09:10
I'm surprised that Eloy hasn't been mentioned yet, Ocean is propably my favorite album that is about Greek Mythology.
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Points: 34099 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 09:39
this album by the Harums is also influenced by mythology and such dunno if it is Greek though http://www.procolharum.com/phalbum8.htm
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 11:53
You mean Samson?
 
Thats the ferk-bible, not Greek mytho.
 
You doing Norwegian crack, or what.
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Points: 18988 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 13:03
Originally posted by topographicbroadways topographicbroadways wrote:

In the classic british prog scene Greek Mythology seems to be a hot subject for conceptual lyrics, particularly Genesis. King Crimson and Yes also contains plenty of Greek Mythology references. Why was this such a popular subject for prog at the time ? 
 
At the time, some of this stuff was still being taught/read in school, at least in Madison where I did 9th through 12th with no English ... Greek Mytholody per se was not taught ... but by the time you read Sophocles, and a couple of others, the teacher would have had you write a paper on something in Greek Mythology ... and you're going to learn some of it when you read one story alone (Oedipus), which goes through 2 generations and encompasses almost one third of Greek myths (Phaedra, Electra, Creon, Jason ... )
 
It is, for my tastes, a lot better inspiration than writing about a silly brown sugar bitch! ... that I couldn't be interested in regardless of how good looking she was ... as I said before ... advertising is a good thing ... but not for me!
 
It was also a show that musicians were a lot more intelligent than just street idiots and hit makers, and if you have even checked/read anything about the "boomers" all over the media, this would make a lot more sense ... most music in those days was considered "pop" music and it never got any recognition for its intelligence and design and composition ... and one way to show off all that academia and professors that they were full of poohpooh (not winnie!) ... was to do something that was more "classical" and had more literary value than just stupid and fun lyrics for the time when you are drunk, picking up a date at the bar, when music doesn't matter.
 
"Progressive" music was a name that ended up being given to a lot of bands whose work was more intelligent and defined than most "rock bands" out there ... and this is the reason why, for me, so much of the early metal stuff, like BS and UH and DP was not important ... because it was more of the same just done harder and louder ... and I did not think that was important, unless we were talking about money ... and of course, being the good peons that most of us are ... that's what we worship today ... the sales and the numbers ... not the art or the music!
 
Quote Most prog stars of this time did of course come from similar backgrounds of private education where things like Greek and Latin mythology would have been taught heavily so maybe this is just it.
 
Not necessarily. There are just as many educated musicians as there are uneducated musicians that went on to do some very nice things. That has been discussed many times here.

Quote what are other peoples thoughts on why it might have appeared in so much early prog work? and any other examples of it in 70's prog
 
I would not confuse your days as 18, through 21 (let's say) ... as influenced by greek mythology any more than you are by Rap mythology, or Movie mythology ... or better yet ... by nekkidgurl mythology! ... and don't fool yourself otherwise. But if could be said, and it would not be incorrect, that for lack of the ability to be considered more intelligent and defined or literary, it might be easier to use something that is classically accepted to show ... that we're educated and we're just as capable of doing work that is as good, if not better than hald the PHD studies that are being done over there ... even today!
 
I did not think, necessarily, that Greek Mythology was that important in rock music ... I much prefer those that were not afraid to create something new, and create their own mythology ... like a Frank Zappa, Amon Duul 2, The Doors ... the problem being that ... we refuse to accept them for being just as important and as good as all those classics. Between all three of those, Greek mythology is out dated crap that has been grossly mis-translated so many times to the point where the scholarship design around it is stupid and bizarre to say the least. No different than all the Christian this and that in that respect. Be carefull ... in the end, Greek Mythology, was not the only inspiration used. A lot of other folk lore and literary works were used ... as a way to show more intelligence and awareness of literature and such ...  the bad part is that the classic/academic world still doesn't believe it or like it and you know why ... they will lose their jobs to folks that have earned it! AND deserve it!


Edited by moshkito - December 31 2010 at 13:11
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Points: 5575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 13:08
[QUOTE=moshkito]

Not necessarily. There are just as many educated musicians as there are uneducated musicians that went on to do some very nice things. That has been discussed many times here.

[quote] 

It is a generalisation but most of the big stars of this generation of Prog did come from that background, Genesis and the Canterbury scene were from a well off background and had private educations that would have led to their eclectic tastes of classical music and complex lyrics
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