Do PA proggers have the right prog balance? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: April 01 2012 at 07:38

Snow Dog wrote:

Better stop the Hebrew now guys.

?טוב

Yes, it would be appreciated by we gentiles Wink

frippism

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Posted: April 01 2012 at 10:39

I guess we can allow the goys to understand us :).

There be dragons

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Posted: April 01 2012 at 11:10

Oyveh!

dr prog

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Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:02

Length of song has nothing to Do with quality prog. It's the quality of the music which matters. Ball is butterflys prog album. Metamorphosis is just a bland hard rock album

The Dark Elf wrote:

dr prog wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:

dr prog wrote:

I'm back

I think alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody. They seem to get excited over albums which lack melody and are filled with experimenting or heavy riffing or they get excited over music which is way over done. You need the composer to go with the musicianship. There's a number albums which clearly require some genius in the compositions which are ignored in here for much blander albums which may have a heavy riff or a trippy moment here and there. Certain albums which are considered a bands prog triumph just seem to a bit of a snooze when it comes to composition. While some albums are just Over Progged.

Please give specific examples of which albums, in your brobdingnagianly contumelious opinion,<SPAN id=hotword> are compositions of genius but are ignored, and which are blander albums but rate highly here. When you make rather arrogant statements like "alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody", it makes me wonder if you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Offering what you consider overrated and underrated will at least allow me the opportunity to better understand your pretensions.</SPAN>

Many albums. Here's one of many example

Look at the ratings of these 3 albums. Ball is definately the best imo

Iron butterfly-ball/in a gadda/metamorphisis

You made a sweeping statement regarding many posters on this forum, but then all you could offer is a limp "Many albums"? That is not acceptable. And then come up with Iron Butterfly? Your basing your assessment on them? Seriously?

If anything, the only reason for discussing Iron Butterlfy at all is the 20-some-minute-long "In-A-Gadda-Davida" and let it go at that. They are a footnote in a discussion regarding psychedelia and no more. All of their albums are extremely inconsistent and dreadful for the most part. But really, Iron Butterfly is marginal to prog at best.

And what exactly about Iron Butterfly is melodic? Do you even know what the definition of melodic is? I looked up "melodic" in the dictionary, and no where was Iron Butterfly synonymous with the word. Try again.

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:03

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.

Dean

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Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:14

Snow Dog wrote:

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.

Do you really think that post will make more sense?

What?

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:19

Dean wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.

Do you really think that post will make more sense?

You got me on that one. Beer

The Dark Elf View Drop Down

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Posted: April 03 2012 at 08:51

Snow Dog wrote:

Dean wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

^It makes more sense to comment after the quoted posts.

Do you really think that post will make more sense?

You got me on that one. Beer

Perhaps it is a literary interpretation of the musical term "minimalism". If so, it was successful.

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

dr prog

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Posted: April 07 2012 at 18:38

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing

Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

Edited by dr prog - April 07 2012 at 18:42

Dean

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Posted: April 07 2012 at 19:03

dr prog wrote:

The more I listen to Oblivion express-Better land the more brilliant it becomes. It craps on an album from the same year such as Nursery Cryme which is rated almost 5 stars lol. Talk about Brainwashing

Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

There are better ways of stating your affection for a artist/album without being a complete jerk about it.

What?

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 07 2012 at 20:59

Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

It's absurd to imply ratings are caused by brainwashing for several reasons:

A great percentage of ratings is made by people who come here, rate a couple of albums, never visit the forum, and the rating of this guys 4.44 IN 101 RATINGS
Most Prog Collaborators are people with years or even decades of of listening Prog, we come here with a previous knowledge, nobody tells us what to like, we know what we like even before joining PA, and our average is 4.41 in 85 reviews with ratings.
161 non collaborators reviewed this album, most of them knew this album when they joined the site and the average is almost the same

So you have 1347 persons from different countries, cultures, background who rated this album and the vast majority of them agree, we can't manipulate all this people.

But that isn't all.

Progressiveears, a different site, with different members made a poll about the top albums of 1972

1	Yes - The Yes Album
2	Genesis - Nursery Cryme
3	Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts
4	Emerson Lake And Palmer - Tarkus
5	Jethro Tull - Aqualung
6	Pink Floyd - Meddle
7	Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mounting Flame
8	Led Zeppelin - IV
9	Caravan - In The Land Of Grey & Pink
10	Gentle Giant - Acquiring The Taste
11	Who - Who's Next
12	King Crimson - Islands
13	Yes - Fragile
14	Black Sabbath - Master of Reality
15	Gong - Camembert Electrique
16	Focus - II (aka Moving Waves)
17	Ash Ra Tempel - Ash Ra Tempel
18	Can - Tago Mago
19	Comus - First Utterance
20	Moody Blues - Every Good Boy Deserves Favour
21	Deep Purple - Fireball
22	Faust - Faust
23	Doors - L.A Woman
24	Cressida - Asylum
25	Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come - Galactic Zoo Dossier
26	Allman Brothers Band - Live at the Fillmore East
27	Hawkwind - In Search Of Space
	John Lennon - Imagine
29	Magma - 1001° Centigrade
30	Santana - III
31	Paul McCartney - Ram
32	Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
33	Tangerine Dream - Alpha Centauri
34	Strawbs - From the Witchwood
35	Alice Cooper - Killer
	Amon Duul II - Tanz der Lemminge (Dance of the Lemmings)
	Traffic - The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
38	Beach Boys - Surf's Up
39	Embryo - Embryo's Rache
	Gracious - This Is.....Gracious!
41	Ornette Coleman - Science Fiction
42	Spring - Spring
43	Moving Gelatine Plates - Moving Gelatine Plates
44	Culpeper's Orchard - Culpeper's Orchard
	Wigwam - Fairyport
46	Curved Air - Second Album
47	David Bowie - Hunky Dory
48	Uriah Heep - Look at Yourself
49	Second Hand - Death May Be Your Santa Claus
50	Miles Davis - Live Evil
51	Alice Cooper - Love it to Death
	Gila - Gila
53	Carla Bley - Escalator Over the Hill
54	Family - Fearless
55	Carole King - Tapestry
56	Peter Hammill - Fools Mate
	Spectrum - Spectrum Part 1
58	Catapilla - Catapilla
	Colosseum - Colosseum Live
60	Joni Mitchell - Blue
	Osibisa - Osibisa
62	Weather Report - Weather Report
63	Out of Focus - Out of Focus
	Roy Harper - Stormcock
65	Sly and the Family Stone - There's a Riot Goin' On
	Stackridge - Stackridge
67	Frank Zappa - 200 Motels
68	Eloy - Eloy
	New Trolls - Concerto Grosso per i New Trolls
70	Nine Days Wonder - Nine Days Wonder
71	T-Rex - Electric Warrior
72	Alan Stivell - Renaissance de l'Harpe Celtique
	Pink Floyd - Relics
	Raw Material - Time Is
75	Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
	Jefferson Airplane - Bark
	Kahvas Jute - Wide Open
78	Beggars Opera - Waters of Change
	Uriah Heep - Salisbury
80	Nucleus - We'll Talk About It Later
81	Amazing Blondel - Fantasia Lindum
	Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Vol. II
	Eiliff - Eiliff
	George Benson - White Rabbit
	Marsupilami - Arena
	Move - Looking On
87	Jimi Hendrix - The Cry of Love
	Supersister - To the Highest Bidder
89	Chain - Towards The Blues
	Donald Byrd - Ethiopian Knights
	Groundhogs - Split
	Maddy Prior / Tim Hart - Summer Solstice
	Nektar - Journey to the Centre of the Eye
	Polyphony - Without Introduction
95	Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
96	Felt - Felt
	Fields - Fields
	Frank Zappa - Live at the Fillmore, June 1971
	Jade Warrior - Jade Warrior
	Masters Apprentices - Choice Cuts
	Mogul Thrash - Mogul Thrash
102	Captain Beefheart - The Spotlight Kid
	Soft Machine - Fourth
	Thor's Hammer - Thor's Hammer
105	Achim Reichel & Machines - Die Grune Reise (The Green Journey)
	Carly Simon - Carly Simon
	Catherine Ribeiro & Alpes - Ame Debout
	Company Caine - A Product Of Broken Reality
	Flute and Voice - Imaginations of Light
	Grateful Dead - Grateful Dead
	Hampton Grease Band - Music to Eat
	Pharoah Sanders - Black Unity
	Yoko Ono - Fly
114	Delivery - Fools Meeting
	Janice Joplin - Pearl
	Steeleye Span - Ten Man Mop
	Supertramp - Indelibly Stamped
118	Carly Simon - Anticipation
	Fresh Maggots - Fresh Maggots
	John Entwistle - Smash Your Head Against the Wall
	Le Orme - Collage
	Procol Harum - Broken Barricades
123	Badfinger - Straight Up
	Carpenters - The Carpenters
	Crosby Stills Nash and Young - Four Way Street
	Guru Guru - Hinten
	Little Feat - Little Feat
	War - War
129	Centipede - Septober Energy
	David Crosby - If Only I Could Remember My Name
	Ikarus - Ikarus
	Indian Summer - Indian Summer
	Mainhorse - Mainhorse
	Mark-Almond - Mark-Almond
	Rare Earth - Rare Earth In Concert
136	Between - Einsteig
	Buon Vecchio Charlie - Buon Vecchio Charlie
	Don McClean - American Pie
	Fairport Convention - Babbacomb Lee
	Fläsket Brinner - Fläsket Brinner
	I Giganti - Terra in Bocca
	John Cale/Terry Riley - Church of Anthrax
	Lobby Loyde - Plays With George Guitar
	Mandrill - Mandrill
	McDonald & Giles - McDonald & Giles
	Renaissance - Illusion
	Rod Stewart - Every Picture Tells a Story
	Thin Lizzy - Thin Lizzy
	Various Artists - The Concert for Bangladesh

Guess what...Nursery Cryme was considered the second best album

But that's not all, the same site made a poll about the best Prog albums ever

1	Yes - Close To The Edge
2	Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
3	Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
4	Yes - Relayer
5	King Crimson - In The Court Of The Crimson King
6	Genesis - Foxtrot
7	Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
8	King Crimson - Red
9	Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans
10	Emerson Lake and Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
11	Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick
12	Yes - The Yes Album
13	King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic
14	Yes - Fragile
15	Genesis - Nursery Cryme

Only 2 spots after our position in N° 13

So, we can't manipulate or brainwash people who listen Prog worldwide, if the album is there, it's because it deserves that rating

Now, Oblivion Express-Better Land has a very poor rating in ProgArchives, but if you check the Top Progressive Album Poll Results in Progressiveears, this album is not in the Top 515 albums of all times.

BTW:

GEPR.net, doesn't even mention Oblivion Express neither Brian Auger
Prognosis.com doesn't even review the album, and only says about Oblivion Express: Born Jul 18, 1939 in London, England
Keyboard player Brain Auger started in the mid 60-s playing funky-fusion music. ""

Is there a chance you may be the one hat is wrong?

Iván

The Dark Elf View Drop Down

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Posted: April 07 2012 at 22:08

Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

To be honest, I had never heard of the album Better Land. So in fairness, I listened to several tracks that were available on YouTube. My assessment: Elevator muzak for an old hippie high-rise. The lyrics are insipid blandities breezily hummed over a jazz-lite score that Crosby, Stills and Nash would be embarrassed to sing. I was bored to tears after the third song. Here is a sample...

It is neither memorable nor moving. If I wanted to listen to jazz, it wouldn't be this album, and it really hasn't much to do with prog-rock. My dentist has better music in his office. In any case, Nursery Cryme doesn't have to worry about competition in the rankings from this album. You couldn't brainwash that many reviewers.

The next question would obviously be: are you Brian Auger's agent trying desperately to sell some remasters?

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:09

The Dark Elf wrote:

Another enjoyable album with a crap rating is Abacus-Midway. Love the first 4 songs plus Be Beholding, Midway and Here we go.

The next question would obviously be: are you Brian Auger's agent trying desperately to sell some remasters?

In a Gadda Da Vida

Better Land

and now

Abacus Midway

Seems that Dr Prog has an obsession with Flower Power jamming.

I love Psyche, but jamming is not melody, it's just improvisation.

Iván

Horizons

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Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:20

Both of those songs are bad.

Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 08 2012 at 00:35

Horizons wrote:

Both of those songs are bad.

Not bad, but many Psych bands were doing better stuff before, like

LAGONIA - Someday - Peru

They really combined Jamming with great Hammond.solos. The album is credited as recorded in 1971, but was in the radios several years before, sadly a Communist Government banned Rock in 1968, so they could only get sponsors that had the balls to confront General Velazco in 1971.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2012 at 00:38