Favourite Dream Theater Epic?

infandous wrote: Six Degrees is easily my favorite.  Octavarium a close second.  Actually, The Count of Tuscany would be my number two, if it weren't for the incredibly bad lyrics.  A Change of Seasons would probably be third for me.

I got the triple special edition - which has got the tracks with no Lyrics - County of Tuscany - Instrumental is brilliant.

HarbouringTheSoul wrote: Prog Snob wrote: Following your logic, then we should start to question any band ever who decided to write a concept album/rock opera. Yes, we should. But at least I can tell you that The Wall is an outlet for Roger Waters' personal problems, that Animals is a political analogy and that The Lamb is some ultra messed-up version of Pilgrim's Progress. What is Metropolis Pt. 2 about? From what I understand, its meaning doesn't go any deeper than the key points of the plot: reincarnation and a love triangle. dtguitarfan wrote: Might as well ask why any story was written - why did Homer write The Odyssey? For historical, mythological and probably also religious reasons.

I think the "reason" for the story can be summed up in Dream Theater's own words from the album:

Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?
What lies beyond
And what lay before?
Is anything certain in life?



Edited by Easy Livin - September 28 2012 at 02:54

Prog Snob wrote: Following your logic, then we should start to question any band ever who decided to write a concept album/rock opera.

Yes, we should. But at least I can tell you that The Wall is an outlet for Roger Waters' personal problems, that Animals is a political analogy and that The Lamb is some ultra messed-up version of Pilgrim's Progress. What is Metropolis Pt. 2 about? From what I understand, its meaning doesn't go any deeper than the key points of the plot: reincarnation and a love triangle.

dtguitarfan wrote: Might as well ask why any story was written - why did Homer write The Odyssey?

For historical, mythological and probably also religious reasons.

if (parent == window){document.write('< ="text/" media="all">@import "/estilos/kphead.css";');setTimeout("document.getElementById('leader').src='/adv.jsp?ad=leader1&title=' + document.title",2000);}

HarbouringTheSoul wrote: progbethyname wrote: What? You have a T-Shirt!? Well this changes everything. Your opinion matters a lot more now Okay, I might not be qualified to say this because I don't have a Dream Theater t-shirt, but I never quite understood the purpose of the Metropolis 2 story. I perfectly understand what's going on and as this thread informs me it's apparently an allusion to the story of Romulus and Remus, but I have to ask: To what end? Is the story trying to tell us anything? Or did they just write the story for the sake of having a story

if (parent == window){document.write('< ="text/" media="all">@import "/estilos/kphead.css";');setTimeout("document.getElementById('leader').src='/adv.jsp?ad=leader1&title=' + document.title",2000);}

dtguitarfan wrote: Ambient Hurricanes wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: progbethyname wrote: Ytse_Jam wrote: DT has haters like every single band on the earth. Everyone has its tastes, not a big deal. Honestly, I find most of King Crimson's albums to be more boring, pretentious and unuseful than most of DT's tracks, but who cares? Talkin about lyrics, has anybody figured out what Metropolis pt. 1 is about?  John Petrucchi has a way of starting off a story and then having it make no sense. Metropolis part 1 deals with the maracle (the after life) and the sleeper(hypnotheripists) who originally puts the main character NICHOLAS into after life orbit. Now I really can't say today how metropolis pt 1 and 2 really connect with one other lyrically. It doesn't make sense just like the track THE KILLING HAND. we just have to guess or assume what happens. Kills me!! Anyway, terrific question, but I'm just as baffled as you. 😁 Actually I heard that the whole story of Metropolis Parts 1 & 2 are a modern retelling of the mythical tale of Romulus and Remus, the sons of Mars.... I'm pretty sure that part 1 is based upon the myth of Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome, but I don't think part 2 has anything to do with it.  To Progbethyname: you have to look at parts 1 and 2, not as two parts of a story, but as an extraction of a story from the themes of an existing work.  I think I've read that the "Part 1" thing was meant as a joke, but then people started looking for a part 2.  The band took some of the themes explored in Part 1 and made them into a story (and one of the best stories I've ever heard, to boot). Well, I had heard part 2 was also a myth retelling, but if it is, it's a lesser known one because I've never been able to find exactly which one. But my understanding of the story is that it goes like this: There are two lovers, and a jealous former lover. Jealous gets drunk and goes out to kill new lover, ends up killing them both accidentally and covers it up, making it look like a murder/suicide and totally gets away with it. This ticks off the Fates, though, because...well, that was basically their favorite soap opera they were watching and Jealous just cancelled it. So they plant the memories of the two lovers into - I think his name was Nicholas? - into Nick's head. Nick doesn't understand why he is having visions of these things that aren't his own memories, so he sees a hypnotherapist. And through hypnotherapy Nick figures out what really happened and solves this old mystery. That's my bad summary and I'm sticking to it.

Well actually, they almost invented the progressive metal genre, or at least they created his guidelines and clichès. Isn't it innovative?The fact is that very often they are accused of abusing of patterns and clichés that are typical of progressive metal, forgetting that most of these clichés have been invented by them!

JS19 wrote: progbethyname wrote: JS19 wrote: Horizons wrote: zeqexes wrote: Alitare wrote: The shortest one because it is over quicker.  ...cannot...compute... It is an opinion that is shared throughout PA. It's also kind of annoying. Yeah lots of people don't like DT, I get it. It's not that funny any more. Doesn't help that a lot of the fans are a bit crazy about them, but still, it's a bit pretentious to have a go at DT every single time they are mentioned... I still enjoy them from time to time, even if they are a little silly sometimes  In answer to the question, I think my favourite would have to be In The Presence Of Enemies. Not a popular opinion because of the dumb lyrics, but I honestly don't expect a lyrical masterpiece when I listen to a DT track  DREAM THEATER are easy one of the most brilliant, technically complex bands in prog and easily the world. People, I feel, make fun of DREAM THEATER because they are just so incredibly technical and some people just don't get it. It is my experience that people often fear and belittle what they don't understand. I call those people closet case idiots. Anyway, just ignor those morons who actually have the audacity to make fun of them. See no, now you've just gone to far. See those 'crazy' DT fans I was talking about. The ones who abandon all logic and reason for their fandom. You sound like one of them... I like DT. I have seen DT live. I have a DT shirt even, but they are not anything that you said. They are a consistent, popular, driving force in the world of prog. They bring a lot of new people into the genre and we have to celebrate them for that, but they aren't the most innovative or technical. Love them or hate them you can't deny they're very important to the prog world right now. darkshade wrote: progbethyname wrote: Snow Dog wrote:   JoeyPS wrote: Octavarium. I LOVE the melancholy beginning segments.    Shine On You Crazy Rudess?  Oh big time!!! Count of Tuscony too. Huge FLOYD influences Actually, that spacey section was inspired by Gershwin''s "Rhapsody In Blue". It just isn't

What? You have a T-Shirt!? Well this changes everything. Your opinion matters a lot more now.....ummm.....not technical...not innovative. Well then hey! I can say you sound like hater or a discretator for DT. I mean come on man....not technical??? Logic has been ripped from your prog sphere for sure then. 😒. You tell me who you really like? I would like to know your favourite band. Just curious that's all. We're all friends here 👊

Ytse_Jam wrote: The Scenes From a Memory plot is quite known, and it is widely explained here: http://faq.dtnorway.com/question?questionid=1032 It's the Part 1 meaning that's still a half mystery to me, like almost all of I&W lyrics  Hovewer, the same site above says: It is based on the story of a telepathically-linked Romulus and Remus from Virgil's Aeneid. It has no relation to the 1927 movie Metropolis. Petrucci wrote it as a sort of fantasy epic, inspired by the likes of Yes and Rush. The story itself is original (the twins are named Miracle and Sleeper and do not appear in literature) but the story type was Homeric. It is linked to part 2 (Scenes From a Memory) in that Edward and Julian Baynes are metaphors for Romulus and Remus, and Victoria is a metaphor Rome (or the 'Metropolis'). This is supported by several lyrical lines in Scenes From a Memory.

Well there it is. The extraction of a story with in another story. Kind of like a story with in a story. Hey? Wait a minute...that's a juxtaposition! Why didn't I think I that. Anyway it is to my feeling now that great music doesnt always have to make sense, but METROPOLIS PT 2 makes perfect sense. That story is as clear as day like ARYEON's THE HUMAN EQUATION.

progbethyname wrote: Snow Dog wrote: JoeyPS wrote: Octavarium. I LOVE the melancholy beginning segments.  Shine On You Crazy Rudess? Oh big time!!! Count of Tuscony too. Huge FLOYD influences

Ambient Hurricanes wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: progbethyname wrote: Ytse_Jam wrote: DT has haters like every single band on the earth. Everyone has its tastes, not a big deal. Honestly, I find most of King Crimson's albums to be more boring, pretentious and unuseful than most of DT's tracks, but who cares? Talkin about lyrics, has anybody figured out what Metropolis pt. 1 is about?  John Petrucchi has a way of starting off a story and then having it make no sense. Metropolis part 1 deals with the maracle (the after life) and the sleeper(hypnotheripists) who originally puts the main character NICHOLAS into after life orbit. Now I really can't say today how metropolis pt 1 and 2 really connect with one other lyrically. It doesn't make sense just like the track THE KILLING HAND. we just have to guess or assume what happens. Kills me!! Anyway, terrific question, but I'm just as baffled as you. 😁 Actually I heard that the whole story of Metropolis Parts 1 & 2 are a modern retelling of the mythical tale of Romulus and Remus, the sons of Mars.... I'm pretty sure that part 1 is based upon the myth of Romulus and Remus and the founding of Rome, but I don't think part 2 has anything to do with it.  To Progbethyname: you have to look at parts 1 and 2, not as two parts of a story, but as an extraction of a story from the themes of an existing work.  I think I've read that the "Part 1" thing was meant as a joke, but then people started looking for a part 2.  The band took some of the themes explored in Part 1 and made them into a story (and one of the best stories I've ever heard, to boot).

Well, I had heard part 2 was also a myth retelling, but if it is, it's a lesser known one because I've never been able to find exactly which one. But my understanding of the story is that it goes like this:
There are two lovers, and a jealous former lover. Jealous gets drunk and goes out to kill new lover, ends up killing them both accidentally and covers it up, making it look like a murder/suicide and totally gets away with it. This ticks off the Fates, though, because...well, that was basically their favorite soap opera they were watching and Jealous just cancelled it. So they plant the memories of the two lovers into - I think his name was Nicholas? - into Nick's head. Nick doesn't understand why he is having visions of these things that aren't his own memories, so he sees a hypnotherapist. And through hypnotherapy Nick figures out what really happened and solves this old mystery. That's my bad summary and I'm sticking to it.