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 moshkito wrote:

I am not sure that Eno cared what others did, because he himself is not musically taught, or studied ... and we would be intimating that his ability to tune in (he said on EM that he was pitch perfect) was not there, and we know it was, or he would not have been able to play with rock musicians like he did! He had to have at least, some rudimentary and basic music knowledge ... !!!

But it is obvious from the way he speaks and describes what he is trying to do, that if there is one thing he can do is dis-associate himself from the "melody" of the standard music definition (all music is "melody" kind of thing!), and create something else that also works within the music.

This was VASTLY different than what the Germans were doing, and you can hear Timothy Leary say a few words about it on 7-UP ... and in many ways, it made it look like Klaus Schulze, was merely playing around with the knobs, which might have been the case, but there also was a very well defined young man that KNEW music fairly well ... and the folks in CAN were not dummies ... when they had instructors whose names were in the who's who of experimental music in the 20th century that we -- here -- are scared poop-less to even consider, or discuss! All of those folks were all "anti", most western concepts of music, thus a lot of things were created that were different, and some of it ended up being called "krautrock", but others went in different directions ... to the point that CAN ended up making fun of disco ... but then you see what's his name say ... "not repetitive enough" ... and it makes you wonder what these "professors" were getting at? ... I don't think it was disco!

It should also be mentioned that the theater tradition during that time in Germany was highly experimental, and even one of its young starts went on to write for Wim Wenders in film ... and his process for lyrics in many of his plays was stranger than ruth or fiction ... and you won't believe it ... and it was the greates nightmare for actors on stage ... which might appear interesting to David Bowie (it did!) later. For ENO, I think it was more the chance to get out of London and be around a foreign place and experience a foreign thing for a chance! A different approach to music! Which helped David and Eno create a couple of things!

But I think that David was probably more interested in the acting and the very rich theater traditions in German history, than he would have been in anything else, and later he even went on to do Kurt Weill, which no doubt he looked at while there with Eno!
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 Sergey Lenkov wrote:

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"Affenstunde" was recorded by PV in 1970 before Eno became more or less known.
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Agreed. However this album is less of a representative of anything else but the experiment of what the synthsizer could or might do, which at the time, was not exactly flowing electronics and moody stuff, but mostly anti-music doodling and fooling that was rather meaningless, even when it had a name.

I've always thought that it was a good name for the piece, that described a lot of the visual and internal elements of the very book they are named after ... but I seriously doubt that anyone here would ever make that connection ... or have a way to figure out exactly what that meant! It would be the same with the BARDO, portions of which would have us scared out of our underwear quickly before the whole house knows it!

ENO's process was a lot less about what the whole sequence of sounds might have felt like, and create a mood, and this might have been his eventual problem with Bryan Ferry ... one wanting to go all over the place with the knobs and sounds, and Bryan saying ... the music has to get tighter!
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 Sergey Lenkov wrote:

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And the idea of ambient is present there. Holger Czukay, Can, NEU!, Konnie Plank - Bowie and Eno appreciated all of them.

It might be considered that the "ambient" thing started way before that, and even Beaver and Krause had their moments, that Tangerine Dream paid a tribute to in Stratosfear.

I think the real problem was ... when is ambient jsut a flip of the knob ... and when is ambient important ... and in this situation, ENO and everyone else, had a strong hand in it. NEU and the early pioneers of the Kraftwerk society and Faust, were already playing around with the knobs ... NEU, is almost exclusively about what that sound does and continue the piece until you are sick of it, but it sounded really stoney and far out, and we liked it, but is probably just a nice garage jam with a little effects added to it ... or just like Brian Jones telling us that The Pipes of Pan were not messed with at all, and neither was the Missa Luba!

The Cosmic Couriers were also "ambient" ... in many ways ... but because they are not repetitive, and tended to continue on a theme and feeling a lot more than just being repetitive ... it has a tendency to make folks think that it is just a meandering jam, which it could be, but if so, they certainly are very well tuned to each other, which is not always a very good trait found in "jams" at all, but for a few minutes. When you listen to "Join Inn" and other pieces, there is a nice quiet inner self that is not about "ambient" and who gives a damn about what it is called. It's a magnificent piece of music to use for loving ... but maybe you only want Joni Mitchell to listen to during that moment! The same for the "Cosmic Jokers" album, but it makes me want to question the sensuality of a lot of people here ... who have to have lyrics while enjoying some sex? Or creating a fantasy?

WEIRD!

Epic post. Bravo!I don't think that Affenstunde was meaningless.
Florian Fricke had the formal music education and it's obvious that he is developing the piece of music.
And don't forget there was the first Ash Ra Tempel album before 7 Up and all that Leary staff.
And the second track on this album is quite atmospheric compostion.
Truely I couldn't be sure if Eno heard Affenstunde or Ash Ra Tempel or Zeit by Tangerine Dream, but I'm sure that the idea of ambient was in the air in that times.
The difference is German accent of krautrock and English accent of Eno.
I'm not dumb sure and insisting - anyway, I was glad to read your thoughts on this matter.
I could also add that later Eno was much interesed in what other musicians doing.
I saw him live in Moscow back in 2005 and he played a kind of ethnic metal with Rashied Taha and... Steve Hillage
Before it in the second half of the 80s he closely worked with Russian rock musicians here. Truely he only published one or two albums on his label, but there were much interaction and I think that Brian is an open minded person.

Edited by Sergey Lenkov - May 27 2013 at 12:49

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