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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: August 05 2014 at 11:58 |
moshkito wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
<H1>"Was early 80's King Crimson really Prog?"</H1>
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I don't mind this cartoon but I think it is insensitive, and stupid. THERE ARE blind people out there, that can not read a sign ... but of course, you would rather laugh at their disability.
Good luck and godspeed when you are 65! You might not appreciate this as much then! | Hmmmm...but blind people wouldn't be able to see this cartoon either...so... To answer the original question posed, yes I've always considered 80s KC prog. As Svetonio pointed out, there is more to prog than just symphonic. Discipline is about as close to prog punk as one can get I think. And Beat and Three were both experimental especially in the instrumentals. But also the pop songs had enough prog in them as well.
Edited by The Doctor - August 05 2014 at 12:01
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 05 2014 at 12:16 |
O666 wrote:
Some guys attacking KC and I dont know why. What is their problem? You never change opinions with this kind of posts and Questions. Why they using Questions? I think they afraid to show their opinions CLEARLY and use these kind of questions. |
Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era KC than before I posted 'this kind of post and Questions'. Opinions about music are always welcomed, at least by me, as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times, the listeners initial state of mind, 'musicians ego' and so on. The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the people giving the responses. Obviously, we will not agree on everything. However, if twentyfive members feel one way about an album or artist and you feel completely another way, than that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something.
Edited by SteveG - August 05 2014 at 15:27
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:10 |
SteveG wrote:
O666 wrote:
Some guys attacking KC and I dont know why. What is their problem? You never change opinions with this kind of posts and Questions. Why they using Questions? I think they afraid to show their opinions CLEARLY and use these kind of questions. | Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era KC than before I posted 'this kind of post and Questions'. Opinions about music are always welcomed, at least by me, as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times, the listeners initial state of mind, 'musicians ego' and so on. The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the people giving the responses. Obviously, we will not agree on everything. However, if twentyfive members feel one way about an album or artist and you feel completely another way, than that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something.
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This is your normal answer and I guess that and ready for this!! You accuse others to proof your opinion. I read your posts and I know your opinion. Be honest dude! I "JUST" talked about my opinion. You accuse me easily :
1- Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era KC than before I posted 2 - as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times 3 - The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the people giving the responses 4 - that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something
WOW. I know guys like you. Please be polite and honest.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:23 |
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:30 |
O666 wrote:
Please be polite and honest. |
They are mutually exclusive. Cut to the chase, honesty is NEVER polite (but can be positive)
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:35 |
You right and I Agree.
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:39 |
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. |
Another "this kind of questions" : Is RF overrated? do you see this? I think this is a systematic attack to KC. You can find more of "This kind of questions" in these days (IMO). They aimed KC clearly.
Edited by O666 - August 06 2014 at 09:40
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:41 |
O666 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
O666 wrote:
Some guys attacking KC and I dont know why. What is their problem? You never change opinions with this kind of posts and Questions. Why they using Questions? I think they afraid to show their opinions CLEARLY and use these kind of questions. | Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era KC than before I posted 'this kind of post and Questions'. Opinions about music are always welcomed, at least by me, as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times, the listeners initial state of mind, 'musicians ego' and so on. The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the people giving the responses. Obviously, we will not agree on everything. However, if twentyfive members feel one way about an album or artist and you feel completely another way, than that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something.
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This is your normal answer and I guess that and ready for this!! You accuse others to proof your opinion. I read your posts and I know your opinion. Be honest dude! I "JUST" talked about my opinion. You accuse me easily :
1- Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era KC than before I posted 2 - as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times 3 - The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the people giving the responses 4 - that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something
WOW. I know guys like you. Please be polite and honest. |
Ok, please read the other posts, etc,etc,etc, and my post was honest. If you are not use to honesty then you will certianly be thrown by an honest answer, which I think is your problem. Perhaps you should contemplate that statment for awhile and stop being so defensive and combative. It's only music we are talking about here, or did you forget?
Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 09:45
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:44 |
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. | As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol.
Edited by Svetonio - August 06 2014 at 09:47
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:48 |
No.As I said before " My English isnt good" and I never want to fight or combat steveG. I only try to talked about music and my opinion. I dont know you and this isnt personal. Perhaps we have too many common opinions but I dont know why you attack to opposite opinions by accusing? And I dont understand your anger.
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:49 |
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. |
As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 09:57 |
O666 wrote:
No.As I said before " My English isnt good" and I never want to fight or combat steveG. I only try to talked about music and my opinion. I dont know you and this isnt personal. Perhaps we have too many common opinions but I dont know why you attack to opposite opinions by accusing? And I dont understand your anger. |
I believe our disagreement is due to poor communication only, so please accept my apology.
Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 10:02
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 10:04 |
O666 wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. |
Another "this kind of questions" : Is RF overrated? do you see this? I think this is a systematic attack to KC. You can find more of "This kind of questions" in these days (IMO). They aimed KC clearly.
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To say that RF is overrated questions his abilities to some extent. But to say that perhaps 80s KC is not prog is not a blot on them as it is only a genre classification issue. Now of course if you are terribly attached to the prog tag, then....but you can't blame other members in the forum for being a little more detached.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 10:21 |
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. |
As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. | ^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say, flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 10:28 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. |
As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. |
^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say, flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude.
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Prog for me will always reside in one era, the early seventies, but people's tastes have moved on so who am I to say what they appreciate is prog or not. I may ask questions but I'm not qualified to make an academic arguement about it. It's up to the talking eggheads to carry out that one, not me.
Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 10:35
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 10:45 |
Robert Fripp was skillfully worked at his own new style of progressive rock which was heavily inspired by post-punk / new wave aesthetics, but that wasn't turned *progressive* into * prog * or vice versa. It was still to be progressive rock without a question. Even more, Discipline, Beat and Three of the Perfect Pair the albums were saved the progressive rock because that trilogy brought that fresh air in our beloved genre. Btw, that (prog)trance contributed to the emancipation of the term * prog * as something separate from the progressive rock but it wasn't Mr Fripp and Discipline the album.
Edited by Svetonio - August 06 2014 at 13:35
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 10:50 |
Svetonio wrote:
^ Robert Fripp was skillfully worked at his own new style of progressive rock which was heavily inspired by post-punk / new wave aesthetics, but that wasn't turned *progressive rock* into * prog *.
Even trance contributed to the emancipation of the term * prog * as something separate from the progressive rock than Mr Fripp and Discipline the album.
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I believe you're making the prog vs. Progressive Rock destinction, which I do not. To me it's a way of contradicting the terms to suit a purpose.
Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 17:41
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 11:01 |
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
^ Robert Fripp was skillfully worked at his own new style of progressive rock which was heavily inspired by post-punk / new wave aesthetics, but that wasn't turned *progressive rock* into * prog *.
Even trance contributed to the emancipation of the term * prog * as something separate from the progressive rock than Mr Fripp and Discipline the album.
| I believe your making the prog vs. Progressive Rock destinction, which I do not. To me it's a way of contradicting the terms to suit a purpose.
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Sorry, I put "^" in my post by mistake. I didn't reply to you actually.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20531
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 11:05 |
^Good. That avoids an argument.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: August 06 2014 at 13:52 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. | As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. | ^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say, flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude. |
You can belong to prog-nostalgic crowd, if you want to, and to claim that the progressive rock ceased in 1980. Nobody needs to challenge your opinion. But, from your side, you wouldn't to dispute other fans who are prog-futurists and who believes in the future of our beloved genre.
Edited by Svetonio - August 06 2014 at 13:58
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