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matty3198
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Topic: Techical nous or individualism whats better Posted: September 17 2014 at 16:07 |
I posted this on the You Tube Vinyl community, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
I
was on a YouTube video where someone was listing their 10 best
guitarists and someone dismissed half the list as being technicians with
no heart. It got me thinking, what attributes do you consider
make a great guitarist. Is it technical/improvisational ability, or is
it having an individual style.
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Wanorak
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Posted: September 17 2014 at 19:21 |
Individuality and a distinct sound like Hackett or Rothery. Technical flash has no appeal to me unless there is some heart and soul in the playing.
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unclemeat69
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Posted: September 17 2014 at 23:13 |
Individuality above anything else. With enough practice most
musicians can get technical skills but individuality is all about
self-expression, you can't really learn that, either it's there or it
isn't.
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Follow your bliss
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Chris S
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Posted: September 17 2014 at 23:31 |
Self expression versus noodling.......................
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russellk
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 01:51 |
An ability to fit what they are doing into the sounds of the musicians around them.
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chopper
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 05:46 |
Wanorak wrote:
Individuality and a distinct sound like Hackett or Rothery. Technical flash has no appeal to me unless there is some heart and soul in the playing. |
Exactly that. Technical skill is impressive but you need the feeling.
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HolyMoly
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 08:33 |
I think the question is worded somewhat unfairly. I would bet that people who prefer technical excellence in guitarists' playing do so because they see some beauty, some expression in it that maybe other people can't. Otherwise, how else could it resonate with them? There is such a thing as mathematical beauty. I'm playing devil's advocate here because I'm not one of those people, but let's not make the mistake that people who love technical density are somehow soulless.
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sleeper
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Joined: October 09 2005
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 09:09 |
This old chestnut again. In my experience what is usually meant by this
is "I don't like him/her/them so he/she/they must be soulless
technicians". Horses for courses people, style and technical proficiency
are not mutually exclusive, a players proficiency is just another tool
for expressing themselves and how well they make use of it is largely
subjective. Thats not to say there aren't musicians/bands that don't get
their "message" lost in the technicality of their playing
(*cough*ELP*cough* )
but I've come across plenty of bands/musicians that were lacking in
technical ability and were, IMO, completely soulless as well.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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SteveG
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 09:10 |
Simple question. Simple Answer. Both.
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Polymorphia
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 09:50 |
Both can be good things or bad things depending upon context. Neither equate to good. The presence or absence of either should serve the whole.
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SteveG
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 10:08 |
^See Jimi Hendrix.
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rogerthat
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Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 10:13 |
sleeper wrote:
This old chestnut again. In my experience what is usually meant by this
is "I don't like him/her/them so he/she/they must be soulless
technicians". Horses for courses people, style and technical proficiency
are not mutually exclusive, a players proficiency is just another tool
for expressing themselves and how well they make use of it is largely
subjective. Thats not to say there aren't musicians/bands that don't get
their "message" lost in the technicality of their playing
(*cough*ELP*cough*)
but I've come across plenty of bands/musicians that were lacking in
technical ability and were, IMO, completely soulless as well.
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Exactly, technical proficiency and style are not mutually exclusive. It takes skill in the first place to be able to express oneself in a way that stands out among many talented musicians.
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Catcher10
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 11:07 |
Robert Johnson, Blind Boy Fuller, Leadbelly, Muddy Waters, BB King and the like....play with more emotion than anything else. Sure they have some technicality but I much more prefer emotion to technical noodling. Can the two meld? Sure can..Hackett, Gilmour, Lifeson, Rothery.
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SteveG
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 11:10 |
^
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Manuel
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 11:10 |
As Martin Barre once said "Anybody can play a great solo, you only need to practice, but to orchestrate with a guitar, you need more than that". Personally, I think he was talking about talent.
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SteveG
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 11:15 |
^ I agree but I think that Barre, as well as others, are talking about the need for a personal style mixed with technical expertise.
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Gerinski
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 12:58 |
First of all there is a common misconception that by technicality we mean only speed and flashy chops such as sweep picking, eight finger tapping etc. But melody, harmony, dynamics, arrangement and so forth are also techniques which can be learnt. Unfortunately since Eddie Van Halen many guitarists concentrated their technical learning only in the areas of speed and flashy chops dismissing many other important areas.
In the 90's Mike Varney launched a project to promote many of these, Jason Becker, George Lynch, Marty Friedman, Greg Howe, Michael Lee Firkins, Vinnie Moore, Richie Kotzen, Tony MacAlpine and many more. In the beginning many of these were rather soulless hair-metal guitar wizards with impressive chops but little personality and feeling and a rather limited musical scope, but it's also true that with time many of them developed into very good players and many ventured into the more demanding scene of fusion, which expanded their musical abilities far beyond speed-of-light chops.
At any rate, feeling and originality is the most important for me, but all the better if it's coupled with good technical skills.
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Manuel
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 19:20 |
SteveG wrote:
^ I agree but I think that Barre, as well as others, are talking about the need for a personal style mixed with technical expertise.
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Absolutely. You can not play a great solo, no matter how much you practice, if you don't have technique first, and practice will also enhance your technique. That being said, Personal style is necessary as long as your talent is there, to set you apart from others, otherwise, you'll just play and sound good (maybe), but won't stamp your name in music history.
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SteveG
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 19:33 |
^I absolutely agree with both you and Gerinski. You must have the "chops" before you can cut your own path. Great posts.
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: September 18 2014 at 20:46 |
Robert Fripp is full of technical wizardry but even he admits that he has great difficulty matching his solos to his feelings--tat they lack resonance with his heart. I remember an interview with him from the early eighties in which he cited John McLaughlin as being his prime example of a guitar player who expresses himself and his heart with each and every solo--whereas he felt that he was almost never capable of achieving such. (Though I do remember seeing him soloing on "Sheltering Sky" on the Beat tour when he got so emotional with a particular solo run that he almost got up off of his stool! Everybody in the crowd roared cuz we knew how close Sir Robert came to actually "letting go"--and how seldom he actually did so.)
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