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Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
Posted: October 06 2014 at 10:33
I haven't seen said documentary on the BBC, but I can only imagine how Hackett got slighted. I'm surprised he was even part of the documentaries for the 2006 CD remasters. As for Banks being a control freak, that's a given with the majority of the writing he did for Wind and Wuthering, Hackett's opus. Then again, Genesis was his and Gabriel's and Rutherford's baby from the start, so he had plenty to be possessive about. Hackett didn't help matters when he ripped And Then There Were Three a new one in a few interviews when it was released. He gave the lads ample resolve in carrying on without him. The one quote that really bugged me though was when Collins was asked why Hackett was no longer in the group. His response of "There were too many musicians in the band," or something to that effect, was smug, arrogant, and downright odd. He was barely a musician in his solo efforts, and that reality, I think, eventually caught up with him, guiding him into retirement.
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Posted: October 06 2014 at 11:23
burningthecurve wrote:
Hey everyone -
I need some advice... I just found what looks to be
PETER GABRIEL Peter Gabriel III (Rare original 1980 US Mercury promotional-only press pack comprising a 2-page press release, 2 pages of copies media articles and two 10" x 8" black & white publicity photographs).
And the press release is on Mercury Records letter head and everything. I have been looking all over the internet and can't find a way to figure out what this thing is worth. lol....
Any ideas? Where would I go to get something like this appraised correctly... I live in San Francisco, Ca.
I have to believe items like this are market driven. Their only real value is in how much someone wants to possess it and thereby how much they are willing to pay. You may possess a one of a kind anything, but if no one else is interested in it it's value is exactly ZERO. Put it on eBay and see what the market will bare, my guess is maybe $25 - $50 tops.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
Posted: October 06 2014 at 11:23
There were too many musicians in the band," or something to that effect, was smug, arrogant, and downright odd
I'd see that in context with the rest of the documentary - Collins was being humorous & acting the fool I think to defuse what was an obviously tense reunion.
...and yes, I'd forgotten - Stuermer playing Firth Of Fifth? Hello?? Yes, he's a fantastic guitarist & did a fine job, but this really put the boot in with Hackett... "I know, we've ignored his entire solo career, how can we really insult him - ah yes - have his replacement play his most famous Genesis solo"
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13872
Posted: October 06 2014 at 13:11
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Have not seen and simply right now don't care to. Genesis sold out. They might as well be called Philesis
Well, you should see the documentary before you post such a comment, sorry, or, even, look at past threads on the site about them.
I have said it before, and will say it until my last breath. The vast majority of three man Genesis material was created by just that...Three men. Banks really could not have made that clearer. Collins didn't even seriously contribute to the writing until Duke, and after that it was very much a collaboration.
By all means accuse them of selling out. I don't, but you are perfectly entitled to. But at least do so with the facts in hand.
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
Posted: October 06 2014 at 18:09
[QUOTE
...and yes, I'd forgotten - Stuermer playing Firth Of Fifth? Hello?? Yes, he's a fantastic guitarist & did a fine job, but this really put the boot in with Hackett... "I know, we've ignored his entire solo career, how can we really insult him - ah yes - have his replacement play his most famous Genesis solo"[/QUOTE]
What amazed me was that Stuermer played it note perfect but with an almost complete absence of "feel" and with none of the emotion Hackett imparted. It was technically perfect but sterile.
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4098
Posted: October 06 2014 at 20:55
Hercules wrote:
[QUOTE
...and yes, I'd forgotten - Stuermer playing Firth Of Fifth? Hello?? Yes, he's a fantastic guitarist & did a fine job, but this really put the boot in with Hackett... "I know, we've ignored his entire solo career, how can we really insult him - ah yes - have his replacement play his most famous Genesis solo"
What amazed me was that Stuermer played it note perfect but with an almost complete absence of "feel" and with none of the emotion Hackett imparted. It was technically perfect but sterile.
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Posted: October 06 2014 at 22:33
My my, i cannot be stoofed dissing Stuermer as sterile?? come on!!
As for PG he left circa 1974, major major influence but the work done without him was extraordinary too for 20++ years. Brilliant and Collins continues to get a bum rap, even when adding humour, sometimes in the past to smooth over Bank's acutely clumsy way with the media. Rutherford perhaps the most normal of the lot :-)
These documentaries have worn thin surely by now...
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: October 07 2014 at 02:58
Chris S wrote:
My my, i cannot be stoofed dissing Stuermer as sterile?? come on!!
As for PG he left circa 1974, major major influence but the work done without him was extraordinary too for 20++ years. Brilliant and Collins continues to get a bum rap, even when adding humour, sometimes in the past to smooth over Bank's acutely clumsy way with the media. Rutherford perhaps the most normal of the lot :-)
These documentaries have worn thin surely by now...
I'm inclined to agree. Unless there is lots of previously unseen live and studio footage of the band at work, these films are not very intetesting.
I love Genesis but the likes of Banks and Rutherford have little of interest to say. They look and speak like politicians, giving sanitised, rehearesed and evasive answers to questions put to them. Hackett, Gabriel, Collins and Phillips are far more intetesting to listen to. An unofficial doc purely from the perspective of these guys would be quite interesting
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: October 07 2014 at 03:09
^ Sonja has just reminded me that Gabriel name-checked Hackett and Phillips when accepting his Prog God award. In hindsight I suspect his comments about TV interviews may be an oblique reference to this documentary.
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20050
Posted: October 07 2014 at 05:25
Zenbadger
3. Steve Hackett giving his reasons for leaving to do solo work with a sarcastic god forgive me guys as the camera switches to show a very unimpressed Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford.. Hilarious! Worth watching this documentary just for that.
[/QUOTE wrote:
Yes, if looks could kill....
I agree with others, Banks came over badly and very jealous of others solo success, although he tried to laugh it off. Interesting to hear that he wouldn't have let Gabriel dress up in the early days if he'd known in advance, even though Collins said it probably added a 0 to their earnings.
Yes, if looks could kill....
I agree with others, Banks came over badly and very jealous of others solo success, although he tried to laugh it off. Interesting to hear that he wouldn't have let Gabriel dress up in the early days if he'd known in advance, even though Collins said it probably added a 0 to their earnings.
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20050
Posted: October 07 2014 at 05:30
Zenbadger wrote:
3. Steve Hackett giving his reasons for leaving to do solo work with a sarcastic "god forgive me guys" as the camera switches to show a very unimpressed Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford.. Hilarious! Worth watching this documentary just for that.
Yes, if looks could kill...
I agree with others that Banks didn't come across well. Although he tried to laugh it off he is obviously jealous of the greater solo success of Gabriel and Collins, also it was interesting to hear that he would not have let Gabriel dress up in the early days had he known in advance, even though Collins said it added a 0 to their earnings.
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4098
Posted: October 07 2014 at 08:28
the Collins "joke" about after Steve left---fewer musicians in the group--is actually not a joke--the 3 super successful guys not only get along they think their success is based on fewer guys--fewer arguments and more agreement about songs. All three have said as much over the years.
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17529
Posted: October 07 2014 at 09:13
I really enjoyed that Gabriel award speech below, he seems like such a good guy.
Re
some other posts, I have to stick up a bit for Tony. I haven't seen
this Doc yet but I have seen similar things written about him before. I
have a hunch he's a good guy too who is just not quite as skilled as
"the singers" at coming off with warmth and humor, a bit aloof, not able
to always come up with the great line in an interview. Perhaps he's a
bit introverted which can make one appear less warm when often that
isn't the case. Maybe he has not treated the other members with as much
affection as he should have, but I think in every great band you need a
person who does "direct" and who does "get it done." As in the Floyd,
with Roger. As highly as I think of the other 3 gentlemen, I do firmly
believe the many accounts I've read that had Roger not "taken the wheel"
as he did in the later 70s, you would not have had nearly the same
legacy of achievement as now exists. Dave, and if I recall Nick too
have basically admitted as much in interviews despite their resentments
of his overbearing nature.
As to the idea of Tony being jealous
of the success of the singers, maybe, maybe not. But of course he
should not be, because in my eyes he has a legacy just as great as
theirs. I firmly believe he was most important single member of the
Genesis legacy I admire and the least replaceable. Without any other
single member the band can and did survive. Without Tony the band would
have lost something critical to my own enjoyment, could there have been
a Wind and Wuthering without Tony? I love his musical personality, his
reserve, his great care of the sound in those days.
Lets face it - the BBC were always going to have a black woman as an "Expert" - it's all very PC at the BBC.....
I watched it and was appalled that Selling England by the Pound was virtually skipped - as was most of the earlier interesting stuff - none of which I didn't already know!!
I was also appalled by the fookin sh*te that genesis pedalled to mugs after W&W - hands up all you sheep that were fleeced when shelling out beer vouchers for ATTWT, D, A and the rest so appalling I'd rather go to watch a pantomime put on by the I.S.....And everybody is right - Rutherford & Banks obviously hate Hackett (probably because he didn't sell out and still produced music that he wanted to write - not just pop-sound-bites designed to part brain dead morons from their cash...
Ahhh that's better.....Catharsis on the Forum...
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