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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 18:09 |
earlyprog wrote:
Kati wrote:
P.S. I figured out was more or less said about me, due to forum comments, that was obvious and I cornered a few close friends too, who had no choice in consideration towards me told me more or less what had happened as I refused being left in the dark especially when it concerns me, things I don't understand why. I still do not understand what happened and what was said. no one broke PA rules. It's all very odd and confusing. To be clear here, I never ever asked for 5 star reviews ever. Album 2 I did not ask anyone for a review. Album one only asked Lucas and Angelo here on PA and asked VanderGraafGenerator aka Juris on fb. I would never do that, ask for higher rating, I'd be to ashamed to do that. Only other person I've discussed the ratings was Horizons on the first album but that was after he reviewed the album and he was so nice too to me. xxxx I have discussed lightly as general comment ratings with Aussi-bird-brother too in private but only because he is my friend, again all this on the first album release, this one new second Album I did not want to put anyone on the spot. Another big hug to you, Dean |
That just about says it all. I get the picture. Do you really have to continue discussing this in the open. |
Earlyprog, What I discuss is none of your business and should not concern you, now considering that you are so inquisitive if you scrolled further down on the forum I also clearly stated that I did not want to keep mentioning this as even I AM GETTING BORED WITH MYSELF. And for the second time, leave me alone.
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2107
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 17:01 |
Kati wrote:
P.S. I figured out was more or less said about me, due to forum comments, that was obvious and I cornered a few close friends too, who had no choice in consideration towards me told me more or less what had happened as I refused being left in the dark especially when it concerns me, things I don't understand why. I still do not understand what happened and what was said. no one broke PA rules. It's all very odd and confusing. To be clear here, I never ever asked for 5 star reviews ever. Album 2 I did not ask anyone for a review. Album one only asked Lucas and Angelo here on PA and asked VanderGraafGenerator aka Juris on fb. I would never do that, ask for higher rating, I'd be to ashamed to do that. Only other person I've discussed the ratings was Horizons on the first album but that was after he reviewed the album and he was so nice too to me. xxxx I have discussed lightly as general comment ratings with Aussi-bird-brother too in private but only because he is my friend, again all this on the first album release, this one new second Album I did not want to put anyone on the spot. Another big hug to you, Dean |
That just about says it all. I get the picture. Do you really have to continue discussing this in the open.
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2107
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 16:43 |
Dean wrote:
I'm not much of a touchy-feely person but ... |
Dean, is that you?
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earlyprog
Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2107
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 16:39 |
Kati wrote:
moshkito wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Everyone and their dog's understudy hairdresser's personal trainer on PA got asked to review the second Corvus Stone album.
... |
Liar! i wasn't asked!
earlyprog wrote:
I personally get annoyed when I see newbies/zero posters in a review claiming that this or that album is the greatest thing since the Pill or something like that. I see this once again with Drifting Sun. |
I don't really see an issue with that, since in the long run other folks will add their own to it! I mean, I was thinking that after your response I would not want to listen or bother with that album at all, and I am pretty sure that the majority of folks on PA are much more discerning and caring about the music and the art form than that! |
hahahaha! moshkito! That's so funny! Without asking the band, I can send you a cd and meanwhile a download too if you want to review it? I'd be glad to send you their album and thrilled to get a review from you? Really! hugs, Sonia |
I knew it! just as I thought
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odinalcatraz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 12 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 347
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:57 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Everyone and their dog's understudy hairdresser's personal trainer on PA got asked to review the second Corvus Stone album. This type of carpet bombing spamming for reviews just chafes everyone's teats and would ordinarily be potentially counter productive to positive appraisals of this music from any discerning and objective reviewer. (I opened a separate thread devoted to the acceptability or otherwise of such marketing practices recently) The album's current score of 4.09 however, clearly contradicts this rationale and seems contrarily inflated by less than assiduous reviews. Yes, that IS judgmental isn't it?. I received a PM asking me to review the album which I flatly declined. I then bought the album based on a You Tube video for Boots for Hire which I enjoyed hugely. I've not submitted a written review yet but would hazard three sparklies from this habitually grudging rodent i.e. good but clearly NOT essential (CS II is a devoted and sincere fans' record, NOT an original artist's one) None of the foregoing spamming can be attributed to Sonia so where the accusations of reviewer manipulation stem from is at best obscure at at worst delusional. As Dean says, no-one on PA has any problem with band members, their friends and family submitting reviews as long as they don't pretend to be disinterested third parties.
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Hi Exit! First of all I have to say thank you for buying the album. As I say to everyone, it means a lot to us and always will. Now I have to ask why you said this: " I received a PM asking me to review the album which I flatly declined."? You are not the first to say this when I know you weren't asked at all. If you have a PM asking you to review it, please copy it here. I would be happy if you did! I guess I approached about 15 Collaborators/Reviewers on here. If you're worried about our reviews by fans, then count the collab reviews as a percentage and then check a few other bands. I think you will see absolute proof that I was VERY keen to get reviews here by non fans. The reviews have been fair and the collab/Fan balance is very good! I never comment here or anywhere else about specific bands doing "prog by numbers". I find it all very nice but quite forgettable. Many of those bands hit the top 10 here every year. It is not for me to say that many listeners of "prog", like what they know, just as in the popular music and movie world. We don't do what sells(because it is boring) and therefore, I do ask people here if they would like to hear the albums and that does cost us money. I NEVER ask anyone to do a review. That would be kind of silly. Bands further up the food chain, have independent record companies who send out huge numbers of albums to get reviews(They charge all that to the bands of course). That way, the band aren't accused of doing too much promotion because they pay someone else to do it! Many of those bands also pay for artwork, guests, production and brick wall mastering but again, we don't. We feel that anyone who is paid for, doesn't really care about what a band does, just about the money they earn for services rendered. Unless a band is well known, then care is added in to that mix. You need to understand that this weird world we know as prog, is not easy for musicians. In fact, we are mostly pretty clueless as to how to get heard at all. I put a lot of thought in to the problem and the potential problem of being accused of daring to promote at all. We certainly have had our fair share of criticism on that front, so I was right to try and avoid it by asking you guys! Believe me... If we wanted to, we could ask MANY fans to write reviews. We don't! We have encouraged a small number who truly love what we do, to do so if they feel so inclined. MUCH more than that, I have suggested to many that they should join PA and get involved. Unfortunately, most just enjoy liking stuff on Facebook. Apart from wondering why you say you were asked to review it, you also say a youtube video of "Boots for hire" and I wonder where you found that? We haven't got one. I hope you are enjoying the album more as time goes on. Both albums seem to be that way. Colin
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http://www.corvusstone.com
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 05:42 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 05:41 |
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What?
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 05:35 |
I will stop mentioning the above, because even I had enough of it and I do not want to drag this longer or be a downer towards others nor do I want any pity either. Let's all focus on moozik, this makes us really happy!
Edited by Kati - March 25 2015 at 05:37
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 05:05 |
My pleasure, really, thank you, ExittheLemming
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 05:01 |
I deleted my comment here because it was redundant, really.
Edited by Kati - March 25 2015 at 05:17
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 04:18 |
Kati wrote:
ExittheLemming
This song is for you Pink Floyd-The Gunner's Dream (Lyrics) |
Thank you Sonia. I've never had a song dedicated to me
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 03:59 |
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Dean, as you know I cannot see what was said about me, although am shocked to find out of what was said behind my back, this was crushing. By no means I meant you had anything to do with the lies and you surely are aware how much I like you among all members here? I thought you were suspicious of my intentions because of some comments you made concerning the band and now clearly I feel really bad, like the most stupid ignorant idiot too, feel really bad again for being wrong. I always seem to get things so wrong, I speak my mind always from my heart and in my post I named you too to discuss this but your reply makes me feel really bad now, obviously deservingly so! I did not mean it to come out that way. I swear. xxx |
Well, that's a little clearer. Don't feel bad about it, it's a misunderstanding that's all.
Frankly I cannot muster the ergs to try and track down what, if anything, was said in the collab zone - most discussions of this nature are usually done in the Report Abuse section of the Public forum - but even if I did I wouldn't be able to comment on it here. Remember the first three rules of Fight Club? Well, the CZ operates in a similar policy: what happens in the CZ stays in the CZ. And there a many good reasons for this, least of all being it allows us collabs to biatch and squabble without making a public spectacle of ourselves, but it also allows us to discuss sensitive issues openly and freely without fear of causing upset or kicking off a public scene. If I were still an Admin I would be far more interested in who broke the first rule of fight club and why than anything we've discussed here. However, I'm not an Admin and I seldom visit the CZ these days so I couldn't care less. I "fell-out" with someone I thought was a good friend over a similar indiscretion and I'm not prepared to go through all that BS again.
I must point out however that anything that is discussed in the Collaborators private area of the forum is not "behind your back", it is "in camera" - you are not privy to what was said but that does not mean that the matter was being dealt with unfairly. That no disciplinary warning was issued as a result (I presume) suggests it was either a storm in a tea cup, summarily dismissed as unsubstantiated or not considered to be an issue.
I should also point out from a topological perspective "behind your back" is actually in front of you (think about it ).
I'm not much of a touchy-feely person but ... |
hahaha awww Dean, your last comment doesn't fool me, you are my favorite smoochie.. cute sweet grumpy you are really sweet (grumpy funny) yes but more sweet really nice) I am so happy you replied. P.S. I figured out was more or less said about me, due to forum comments, that was obvious and I cornered a few close friends too, who had no choice in consideration towards me told me more or less what had happened as I refused being left in the dark especially when it concerns me, things I don't understand why. I still do not understand what happened and what was said. no one broke PA rules. It's all very odd and confusing. To be clear here, I never ever asked for 5 star reviews ever. Album 2 I did not ask anyone for a review. Album one only asked Lucas and Angelo here on PA and asked VanderGraafGenerator aka Juris on fb. I would never do that, ask for higher rating, I'd be to ashamed to do that. Only other person I've discussed the ratings was Horizons on the first album but that was after he reviewed the album and he was so nice too to me. xxxx I have discussed lightly as general comment ratings with Aussi-bird-brother too in private but only because he is my friend, again all this on the first album release, this one new second Album I did not want to put anyone on the spot. Another big hug to you, Dean
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 03:20 |
Kati wrote:
Dean, as you know I cannot see what was said about me, although am shocked to find out of what was said behind my back, this was crushing. By no means I meant you had anything to do with the lies and you surely are aware how much I like you among all members here? I thought you were suspicious of my intentions because of some comments you made concerning the band and now clearly I feel really bad, like the most stupid ignorant idiot too, feel really bad again for being wrong. I always seem to get things so wrong, I speak my mind always from my heart and in my post I named you too to discuss this but your reply makes me feel really bad now, obviously deservingly so! I did not mean it to come out that way. I swear. xxx |
Well, that's a little clearer. Don't feel bad about it, it's a misunderstanding that's all.
Frankly I cannot muster the ergs to try and track down what, if anything, was said in the collab zone - most discussions of this nature are usually done in the Report Abuse section of the Public forum - but even if I did I wouldn't be able to comment on it here. Remember the first three rules of Fight Club? Well, the CZ operates in a similar policy: what happens in the CZ stays in the CZ. And there a many good reasons for this, least of all being it allows us collabs to biatch and squabble without making a public spectacle of ourselves, but it also allows us to discuss sensitive issues openly and freely without fear of causing upset or kicking off a public scene. If I were still an Admin I would be far more interested in who broke the first rule of fight club and why than anything we've discussed here. However, I'm not an Admin and I seldom visit the CZ these days so I couldn't care less. I "fell-out" with someone I thought was a good friend over a similar indiscretion and I'm not prepared to go through all that BS again.
I must point out however that anything that is discussed in the Collaborators private area of the forum is not "behind your back", it is "in camera" - you are not privy to what was said but that does not mean that the matter was being dealt with unfairly. That no disciplinary warning was issued as a result (I presume) suggests it was either a storm in a tea cup, summarily dismissed as unsubstantiated or not considered to be an issue.
I should also point out from a topological perspective "behind your back" is actually in front of you (think about it ).
I'm not much of a touchy-feely person but ...
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What?
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 01:07 |
This beautiful sad song is so special and dedicated to Dean Pink Floyd Final Cut (11) - The Final Cut that guitar tune at 3.19min kills me awwwww
Edited by Kati - March 25 2015 at 01:10
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 00:59 |
ExittheLemming
This song is for you Pink Floyd-The Gunner's Dream (Lyrics)
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 24 2015 at 23:34 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Kati wrote:
Reading back all these msg's inc. yours Dean on other forums, I had no idea anyone had tainted me on your private collab forum link, saying I was asking for 5 star reviews. This makes me so sad, I only ever asked Lucas and Angelo for a review on CS first album, also asked Juris through fb (fb name) aka VanDerGraafGenerator because he was a friend of Connor, who to date I think know that Connor is one of the nicest clever person's to date I have ever met. Thus total first album asked 3 people for a review, second album I have not asked anyone to review it.. I am sad because reading back on a lot of things said and my happy ignorant replies, now I feel like a fool, I was an optimist and really loved it here.
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Continue being an optimist, Sonia. There are quite enough cynics, fanatics and out-and-out nuts on this forum. You needn't feel foolish or change your attitude here. And I do hope you decide to continue posting on PA. Like the endless whining over statistics, we need your optimism to counterbalance the cynicism; otherwise, it will be a darker place. |
The Dark Elf, thank you so SO much for your beautiful encouraging comment. This song is for you. I think Gilmour never sang as high as this ever. Such beautiful emotional song and this I must dedicate to you, thank you very much xxxx Dark Globe by Syd Barrett - cover by David Gilmour
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 24 2015 at 23:29 |
moshkito wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Everyone and their dog's understudy hairdresser's personal trainer on PA got asked to review the second Corvus Stone album.
... |
Liar! i wasn't asked!
earlyprog wrote:
I personally get annoyed when I see newbies/zero posters in a review claiming that this or that album is the greatest thing since the Pill or something like that. I see this once again with Drifting Sun. |
I don't really see an issue with that, since in the long run other folks will add their own to it! I mean, I was thinking that after your response I would not want to listen or bother with that album at all, and I am pretty sure that the majority of folks on PA are much more discerning and caring about the music and the art form than that! |
hahahaha! moshkito! That's so funny! Without asking the band, I can send you a cd and meanwhile a download too if you want to review it? I'd be glad to send you their album and thrilled to get a review from you? Really! hugs, Sonia
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 24 2015 at 23:25 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Everyone and their dog's understudy hairdresser's personal trainer on PA got asked to review the second Corvus Stone album. This type of carpet bombing spamming for reviews just chafes everyone's teats and would ordinarily be potentially counter productive to positive appraisals of this music from any discerning and objective reviewer. (I opened a separate thread devoted to the acceptability or otherwise of such marketing practices recently) The album's current score of 4.09 however, clearly contradicts this rationale and seems contrarily inflated by less than assiduous reviews. Yes, that IS judgmental isn't it?. I received a PM asking me to review the album which I flatly declined. I then bought the album based on a You Tube video for Boots for Hire which I enjoyed hugely. I've not submitted a written review yet but would hazard three sparklies from this habitually grudging rodent i.e. good but clearly NOT essential (CS II is a devoted and sincere fans' record, NOT an original artist's one) None of the foregoing spamming can be attributed to Sonia so where the accusations of reviewer manipulation stem from is at best obscure at at worst delusional. As Dean says, no-one on PA has any problem with band members, their friends and family submitting reviews as long as they don't pretend to be disinterested third parties.
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ExittheLemming, thank you However lol you cheeky sod To be honest, I think it's a positive for any band to ask people that they do not know for a review This gives the band unbiased reviews, I see no negative in this Certainly in P.A. content a good thing. As you stated "Everyone and their dog's understudy hairdresser's personal trainer on PA got asked to review" it went beyond that by asking reviewers if they too would like to review their album. This is not a bad thing I believe and I think you'll agree with me too here. Big hug to you, ExittheLemming. Again thank you, so much! xxxx
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 24 2015 at 23:16 |
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Reading back all these msg's inc. yours Dean on other forums, I had no idea anyone had tainted me on your private collab forum link, saying I was asking for 5 star reviews. This makes me so sad, I only ever asked Lucas and Angelo for a review on CS first album, also asked Juris through fb (fb name) aka VanDerGraafGenerator because he was a friend of Connor, who to date I think know that Connor is one of the nicest clever person's to date I have ever met. Thus total first album asked 3 people for a review, second album I have not asked anyone to review it.. I am sad because reading back on a lot of things said and my happy ignorant replies, now I feel like a fool, I was an optimist and really loved it here.
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I don't know what I have done to deserve specific mention in your post Sonia or where (or who) you have got this idea from.
I make it a specific point of honour never to discuss what occurs in the CZ, SCZ and AZ or what is said in PMs anywhere public, and that includes FB. [in fact I never, ever discuss anything to do with the PA on FB]. Private conversations are called "private" for a fu*king reason.
I would never accuse anyone of anything without incontrovertible proof and then never, ever in a public forum. What happens in the private CZ forum remains private and confidential but as far as I recall I have never made any such claim there either - in fact I have gone to great lengths in the CZ and SCZ to demand than anyone making such a claim produced hard evidence before even thinking about making any accusations.
I have said on many occasions that it is okay for band members and their friends & family to post reviews and rate albums as long as they are honest and upfront about it.
I have also suggested that it is also okay for people to ask others to rate and/or review an album as long as they don't try and influence those people into giving higher ratings or more favourable reviews than they believe the album warrants. I would also add that the prospective rater and/or reviewer should feel under no obligation to comply with anyone's wishes.
That aside, Conor (only one "n" in his name) is a good kid and a damn good writer, his presence here is missed, he poked the hornets nest here and ran away before he got stung but that is by-the-by and not something to discuss here.
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Dean, as you know I cannot see what was said about me, although am shocked to find out of what was said behind my back, this was crushing. By no means I meant you had anything to do with the lies and you surely are aware how much I like you among all members here? I thought you were suspicious of my intentions because of some comments you made concerning the band and now clearly I feel really bad, like the most stupid ignorant idiot too, feel really bad again for being wrong. I always seem to get things so wrong, I speak my mind always from my heart and in my post I named you too to discuss this but your reply makes me feel really bad now, obviously deservingly so! I did not mean it to come out that way. I swear. xxx
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: March 23 2015 at 02:59 |
moshkito wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
^ Thank you, Kati. If you had not posted that report, I would not have learned that King Crimson was in former Prog Archives' Art Rock section |
In the early 70's it WAS considered "art rock", as was YES, when it made it. I almost would suggest that the majority of stuff on the early FM radio in the US was all "art rock" ... and stopped being that when FM became just another commercial station! |
Of course. I know that in the seventies, particularly on the other side of the Atlantic, the progressive rock was synonymously called art rock and that it was the same thing.However, I wanted to point out something else. Back in 2007, Prog Archives had the "art rock" section as a separate genre - probably the acts a la Roxy Music, 10cc, David Bowie, Kate Bush and so on. As King Crimson was there, what was ridiculous, I pointed this:
^ Kati, this would be slightly off the topic but for me it's a kind of confirmation of my own hypothesis that *Eclectic Prog* the term was invented due to the serious problem that was - where to place King Crimson, the great band with so eclectic catalogue? with invented term *Eclectic Prog*, the problem is solved and everybody's happy. Personally, I do like that *Eclectic Prog* the term as the name of the PA sub-genre as well, and I'm going to take this exceptional opportunity to express my gratitude to the one who came up with the idea for the *Eclectic prog* sub-genre - whoever it was.
However, all these unnecessary doubts regarding the sub-genre that not exist outside this site, would not exist if back then someone get very simple idea to make the national categories - same as *Rock Progressive Italiano*. Thus, King Crimson would have been placed immediately where they belong - in the British prog category; all Polish bands would be in the category of Polish prog, ex-Yugoslavia prog bands should be in ex-Yugoslav prog section (for example, my fav ex-Yugoslav band Smak is in PA' JR/F section although Smak actually have nothing less eclectic catalogue than e.g. KC) then Spanish progressive rock would be in PA's Rock Progresivo Espaņol section, U.S. bands would be in U.S. Progressive rock section and so on.
Of course, some will say that it can not cover these definitions of certain styles, such as progressive psychedelia, jazz rock, symphonic rock, progressive metal, heavy prog, progressive electronic etc., but these stylistic definitions (and the time frames also) anyway would be certainly written in the biographies of the bands and in the reviews of the albums. Just my two cents |
Edited by Svetonio - March 23 2015 at 06:00
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