Some observations |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | ||||
HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 14:10 | |||
|
||||
Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5153 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 14:39 | |||
There's no obligation for any artist to support like-minded newcomer artists, but if they do it's a very nice thing.
|
||||
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17733 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 15:43 | |||
Pretty much this is it.....If The Tangent (Andy) feels the big 70's groups are not or have not done enough...He just needs to look at his own band because without the Genesis's of the world the Tangent would not exist probably. Genesis and the like, helped all these bands by simply existing and making music. That, I assume, was the inspiration for the Tangent to form and make the music they make now. Now if these newer bands don't feel they are getting their due...well they can blame that on the internet, Youtube, spotify and the loads of other "free music" websites. Essentially same thing Dean mentioned, spot on Will the Tangent ever play to the big arena crowds that Genesis, Yes, Rush....Pink Floyd played to, probably not.....$8-$12 for a concert ticket back then versus $50-$200 today. No promoter will guarantee that kind of money to a band. I am not slamming Tangent at all.....They need to do all they can to make a living, but asking the "prog giants" for more help seems the wrong path. Its just the music world today, specifically prog music. You know maybe they are feeling the pressure to try and keep prog alive, especially since we are on the verge of seeing things like: Genesis will never reunite, Pink Floyd is done, Yes is very close, Rush are gearing down...So from that point I can see the concern. But there are many bands still carrying the torch, or maybe it is a candle now. |
||||
|
||||
Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10215 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 15:55 | |||
There are many modern Prog albums with 70's Prog guests, doesn't that count as support?
|
||||
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 15:58 | |||
Steve Hackett certainly doesn't shy away from a little cameo work for obscure bands.
Edited by Guldbamsen - March 31 2015 at 15:59 |
||||
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
||||
Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10215 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 16:06 | |||
True, I'm not much surprised when I see him on album credits now.
The last Ayreon album sure has a lot of guests |
||||
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 16:09 | |||
Yeah Arjen is crazy with his guest spots. I gather it's mostly done over the internet though. I can't imagine Phideaux flying in from Canada to do a vocal bit
|
||||
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
||||
Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10215 |
Posted: March 31 2015 at 16:28 | |||
Yep, the wonders of internet
|
||||
richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26471 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 01:26 | |||
there was no internet then so it could be argued there is more opportunity for exposure now than ever before my feeling will always be (and for all things this holds) that people need to take control of their own lives. As soon as you start looking for others to give you a leg up then you run into problems. Prog does come up against a certain amount of resistance and perhaps the seventies bands have both created a scene and destroyed a scene in equal measure with their lack of responsibility (ie over indulgence) but as others have pointed out it was theirs to break as they made it in the first place. Blaming the guy who climbed Everest for not giving you more vocal support is a bit lame imo
|
||||
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 05:23 | |||
|
||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 05:55 | |||
Having managed a band for several years that has played support to many "big names" in metal (Paradise Lost, Threshold (twice), Within Temptation (twice), Sonata Arctica (twice), Epica, After Forever, Edenbrige ... to name but a few) and even played double-headliner gigs with DragonForce and Haken early in those bands' careers I can confirm that the practice exists and there are some positive benefits if the matching of the bands on the bill is handled well, (playing to the wrong audience is a waste of time and energy), but it will not propel you to fame and fortune. Audiences are fickle and while the band was never booed off stage, they did experience a degree of disinterest from many attendees who where only there to see the headline act. Yet getting on those bills in the first place was far more of a challenge than trying to whip up some excitement in a disinterested crowd. We found that the headline acts themselves have very little say in who else is on the bill, all the power resides in the tour promoters and they want evidence that you can attract extra ticket sales in your own right. Back then, if you were unsigned then they were not interested in booking your band. None of those headline acts requested that our band supported them, each billing was achieved by convincing the promoter that we would bring our own fans to the show, and in some cases that was even "pay to play" in some form or other.
|
||||
What?
|
||||
moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16576 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:21 | |||
Hi, It's a tough topic for everyone. I think that all of us want to see our children succeed, but sometimes, they want to go their way, and all you can say is ... See you later, and hope that you can hug them and appreciate their own growth as time goes by. You still have to love them, regardless, even though at times this might be tough ... and you know mom always helps ... can I do your laundry? All in all, the biggest names were not quite as much help as one hoped for. I, personally, think that both the Rolling Stones and the Beatles ended up creating an atmosphere that did not go out of the way to help others that much, as far as I can see. When you compare, how many folks Robert Fripp, Eno and Peter Gabriel giving us more attention to world music, I would think that is massive and helpful and it was not exactly boring and the same thing. But taking Dean's example, at how frustrating it can be to open a show, Babe Ruth did a massively great show at the Whiskey a Go Go, but they were getting boo'd even on their version of King Kong (Zappa) which was excellent, mostly because the audience wanted Iggy Pop, not Babe Ruth! We went because of Babe Ruth! And promptly walked out 15 minutes into Iggy's show. That is not fun, and sometimes scary. Both Nektar and Golden Earring also have a few stories on that subject. And we don't have to mention Soft Machine opening for Jimi Hendrix ... !!! Or Woodstock, that totally ignored and supposedly booed The Incredible String Band! Or the 1999 SF Progressive Music Festival, when the Rocket Scientists put on a very clean and well done and professional show ... and many of the folks just went outside ... ohhh just another metal band from LA. And that was sad ... even our own did this! And they were the best for that day, but never got their deserved recognition! I do not think, that the commercial world needs help. As Dean observed, the audiences can be fickle and not fun. They are not there for the art in the first place, and the bands in support, can be good/bad/indifferent, but few of them stand out and blow up the place. There are stories that Carmen blew out both Jethro Tull and David Bowie in the same week! And that is rare, but it also means that band has to believe their material to no end ... and play it like the best there is. And the rest has a way of taking care of itself ... but I know one thing ... I know I tried, and i don't feel bitter I did not "make it", and I know who my "teachers" were and I still respect them. Edited by moshkito - April 01 2015 at 10:24 |
||||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13456 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 15:06 | |||
Remember what David Gilmour replied to Johnny Rotten?
|
||||
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
||||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12791 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 16:00 | |||
He said: "I thought the Sex Pistols were rather good. I've been on a show with Johnny Rotten - it was at Sadler's Wells - and he said he never really hated Pink Floyd and actually he was a bit of a fan. I confess to not having entirely believed it in the first place. I mean, who could hate us? "
|
||||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||||
JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18428 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 17:40 | |||
Here's a bit of of a gut check for everyone when it comes to "Big Names" supporting up and comers. There is a band from Kitchener Ontario called Helix, some of you may know them. They had a minor hit and/or radio play in the early 80's. Their manager was able to get them hooked up to open for Kiss on a European tour. Here's the crux, Kiss demanded that they pay $250,000 to do it. One of the guys told me they were basically living on around $30 week after all their expenses. So what does that tell ya? Personally I've never been a fan of Kiss or Gene Simmons.
|
||||
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
|
||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: April 01 2015 at 17:56 | |||
That sounds like a "go away" price to me. Basically it's a fictitiously ridiculous price you quote to someone who is pestering you to make them fu*k off.
|
||||
What?
|
||||
richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26471 |
Posted: April 02 2015 at 01:14 | |||
I'll give you a tenner Dean
|
||||
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: April 02 2015 at 01:35 | |||
A man was not created by the ancient astronauts' genetic engineering (or "God" if you prefer that religious version) just to serve another man, man is not created to be anyone's servant, and as long as there is preferential and subordinates and as long as there are those who try to impose themselves as some masters who will manage and dispose of others and who believe that other people should be their servants who will work for their interests, will not be peace, neither social peace nor of any other kind and will come to conflict, war and bloodshed. Also in neo-liberal capitalism (laissez-faire economic liberalism) is clear that from day to day less and less small group of people is becoming richer while more and more poor and this trend can not last forever either by a single law, I mean both the social law and the law on an esoteric and metaphysical level . In the long term perspective, it is only an utopian system like the one that is on the Earth in "Star Trek", where there is not money, is no more class distinctions, where there is no hunger, disease, wars and so on. And where people are there to be learned, studied, playing music, worked on it and where they improved themselves, and where to enlightenment, kindness and knowledge were the only true measure of one's wealth. Edited by Svetonio - April 02 2015 at 01:51 |
||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: April 02 2015 at 01:49 | |||
Since you haven't quite grasped the principle of what is involved here, I'll take your money.
|
||||
What?
|
||||
NutterAlert
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 07 2005 Location: In transition Status: Offline Points: 2807 |
Posted: April 02 2015 at 03:53 | |||
And even when 70s heros do help, is it appreciated?
The Great Man (PH) plus John Ellis supported Marillion in '83 in London. Apparently Mr. Dick was a fan of PH/VdGG. First year of working in London and thrilled to see him live again so off I trotted to Hammy Odeon.. He was booed and slow hand clapped by a bunch of morons who appeared to want a pop/prog-lite Genesis clone band. Not blaming Marillion or Fish per se, and not my view of Marillion either, think they are ok, but their audience at the time had an alarming lack of what...education? knowledge? taste? manners? left at half time in disgust. Next time I saw PH, solo, at LSE in '84, stunning performance, fully appreciated by a rapt audience. Maybe best to keep ploughing your own furrow....
|
||||
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |