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Joined: November 02 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 171
Posted: November 19 2015 at 11:21
I applaud many here for their liberal and humanitarian views regarding this threads topic, but the bottom line is simply this:
Until the media spends as much time with the peaceful adherents of Islam as they do with on the violent extremists, a balanced picture of Islam will not be forthcoming.
No peripheral views and discussions such as Raza Aslan's criticism of Bill Maher's islamophobia (which is hard to say given all that Maher has done for liberal causes) or pictures of dead refugees do little to portray the Syrian refugees as people. Only those that speak and are heard can be viewed as people with the same fears, dreams and hopes that every other person on this planet shares with each other.
Theseare people, humanbeings, that we so casually talk of, and then petition, to discardlikerubbish.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 19 2015 at 11:26
By the way, the House of Representatives of the US will vote in a bill by the GOP (or grand collection of idiots) to extra screen and, in a word, stop Syrian refugees coming to the US. oh the humanity...
Joined: November 02 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 171
Posted: November 19 2015 at 11:30
Yes, T, xenophophia, like any other form of ignorance and fear, easily spreads like some airborne virus. Unfortunately, this type of thing doesn't shock me anymore. But the outrage I feel still remains.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
Posted: November 19 2015 at 14:02
Guldbamsen wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
^You may want to read up on Muslims/Islam. Like Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jedis and Swedes they too come in all kinds of versions
Crash course coming up:
I actually read his first book called There Is No God But God...some years back because we were having a religious discussion at our Unitarian Church about Islam in the modern world. His main point was that Islam has not yet had it's Reformation as Christianity did in the 1500's. I'm not a religious scholar so some of it went over my head but in that video clip his answers are wanting imho . He's ready to call other people stupid and blame them for not getting it , but he has no answers for the problem either and while not exactly an apologist for these radical actions he seems to be giving them a pass in some ways.
I wish they had asked him straight out what he would do about these radical Islamists since it's not general Islam that's the problem currently. Would he have had any solutions? Probably not.
I think he's right on the money, and I certainly don't see him as an apologist. He is trying to open their eyes, because they continuously refer to Muslims as one big group of people. The problems only increase exponentially if we set out thinking there are easy solutions to this problem....and yes he is not offering up any of those (thank ford) but infinitely more important talking about the foundation on which they can form.
We are never going to "win" this war if we continue to paint every Muslim with the same brush. Once we start homing in on the differences between the many many different peoples - we're that much closer to identifying the real enemy - and like the good ol' saying goes 'Know your enemy'.
While some of that is true if you are not offering any solutions yet still spouting about the issue then what are you accomplishing? His attitude is one of 'I know more than you'..and he's arrogant, regardless of how well meaning you think he is.
His 'dialogue' seems one sided even though he acts like he's taking the higher ground. Where are all the moderate Islamic leaders speaking out in public against the radical ones..?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
Posted: November 19 2015 at 14:46
It's not really supposed to be a two-sided conversation... He's being questioned as an expert on the Muslim faith. His expertise is needed to get a more balanced way of looking on the problem of extremist Islam, not so that he can disapprove of terrorism like everyone else, because that speaks for itself.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
Posted: November 19 2015 at 14:54
twseel wrote:
It's not really supposed to be a two-sided conversation... He's being questioned as an expert on the Muslim faith. His expertise is needed to get a more balanced way of looking on the problem of extremist Islam, not so that he can disapprove of terrorism like everyone else, because that speaks for itself.
Fair enough...but he's still got an attitude problem imho. If you are being an expert then try doing it without being confrontational or others won't hear what you are saying.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 19 2015 at 15:22
Unlike others, I have read his book There is No God but God and I don't see neither an excuse for terrorims nor the complete opposite. Azlan's book has a pretty fair down the middle vision Of Islam and it's history. I don't know why he has to provide solutions. Other people are the ones in charge (if possible) of that.
Joined: November 02 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 171
Posted: November 19 2015 at 15:45
Man, this discussion really got hang up on Mr. Aslan. For a change of pace, let's inquire what solutions Bill Maher, or any other isalmophobe, has for this problem. Aside for categorizing all Muslims as having the same character.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
Posted: November 19 2015 at 15:47
The T wrote:
Unlike others, I have read his book There is No God but God and I don't see neither an excuse for terrorims nor the complete opposite. Azlan's book has a pretty fair down the middle vision Of Islam and it's history. I don't know why he has to provide solutions. Other people are the ones in charge (if possible) of that.
What 'other people'...? If he's an expert in Islam shouldn't he have some insight into this problem..?
If not people like him then who?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
Posted: November 19 2015 at 15:48
RayRo wrote:
Man, this discussion really got hang up on Mr. Aslan. For a change of pace, let's inquire what solutions Bill Maher, or any other isalmophobe, has for this problem. Aside for categorizing all Muslims as having the same character.
Why is Maher an 'Islamophobe..? He dislikes 'all religions'....so shouldn't he be a Religiousphobe'...?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 19 2015 at 16:23
dr wu23 wrote:
The T wrote:
Unlike others, I have read his book There is No God but God and I don't see neither an excuse for terrorims nor the complete opposite. Azlan's book has a pretty fair down the middle vision Of Islam and it's history. I don't know why he has to provide solutions. Other people are the ones in charge (if possible) of that.
What 'other people'...? If he's an expert in Islam shouldn't he have some insight into this problem..?
If not people like him then who?
For starters... governments? Politicians? Military experts? A writer/journalist is far lower in the list of people who should provide answers.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 19 2015 at 16:24
I don't think Maher is an islamophobe. He probably exaggerates the Islamism of terrorists but it's his contempt for all religions showing through, nothing more.
Joined: November 02 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 171
Posted: November 19 2015 at 16:32
The T wrote:
I don't think Maher is an islamophobe. He probably exaggerates the Islamism of terrorists but it's his contempt for all religions showing through, nothing more.
Maher's non stop OTT rhetoric about Muslims as has been countered by many people aside from Aslan, with actor/activest Ben Affleck being the most vocal both on Maher's show and off. If enough people start saying that you quack like a duck, then you're a duck.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
Posted: November 19 2015 at 16:36
RayRo wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
RayRo wrote:
Without going outside of the context of these immediate discussions that concern Bill Maher, he is this:
Islamophobia
(ˌɪzlɑːməˈfəʊbɪə)
n
1. (Psychology)hatred or fear of Muslims or of theirpolitics or culture
2. (Government,Politics & Diplomacy)hatred or fear of Muslims or of theirpolitics or culture.
So then IYO he hates all Muslims and not just the radical element that are killing people...?
If not, then is the poorest expression of someone liking all Muslims that I've ever heard. Let the first minute of Maher's words roll over you again.
I hear him commenting on Isis and the fact that 'large numbers' of Muslims, IHO, might support some of that ideology. I don't hear him saying that about all Muslims.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 19 2015 at 16:37
RayRo wrote:
The T wrote:
I don't think Maher is an islamophobe. He probably exaggerates the Islamism of terrorists but it's his contempt for all religions showing through, nothing more.
Maher's non stop OTT rhetoric about Muslims as has been countered by many people aside from Aslan, with actor/activest Ben Affleck being the most vocal both on Maher's show and off. If enough people start saying that you quack like a duck, then you're a duck.
No, it doesn't work that way. I watch Maher every Friday and yes he's consistent in his attacks on religions (and lately especially on Islam) but he clearly stresses that he's not attacking all muslims.
Also, even though you didn't say it, but some people do, so let's just clarify again: even if a person was an islamophobe (which I don't think is a good thing to be) that doesn't make said person a racist since Islam is NOT a race. You are attacking a set of beliefs.
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Guldbamsen wrote:
