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And You and I live - which version?

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Poll Question: Which live version is the best?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [5.71%]
4 [11.43%]
14 [40.00%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [14.29%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [8.57%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
7 [20.00%]
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micky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2016 at 20:32
damn... I'll keep an eye out for it. You have really peaked my interest! One benefit of living here is often hard to find albums are easy to find at one of the hundreds of used and 2nd half album stores in the area.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2016 at 06:57
Have to go for the CTTE version.
I really enjoy the live recordings (some more than others), but the original brings it home.
Welcome to the middle of the film.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emigre80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2016 at 07:22
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

damn... I'll keep an eye out for it. You have really peaked my interest! One benefit of living here is often hard to find albums are easy to find at one of the hundreds of used and 2nd half album stores in the area.
 
I got it on iTunes but I know you won't use that option.  I live in a used record and CD desert out here in Lexington.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2016 at 08:17
I've never truly liked any live version more than the studio one.

Edited by DDPascalDD - April 26 2016 at 08:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2016 at 22:25
Not sure between the original one and the sympyhonic one. The Symphonic complement really works wonderfully with the song, but the original one has THE line-up from Yes, specially Bruford... I might give a slight edge to the original one, but will vote for the symphonic one becaus it needs the love more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 01:23
Studio any day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 02:52
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

And You And Me (they were and are appalling at grammar)

And You And I is correct in this case.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 05:45
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

And You And Me (they were and are appalling at grammar)

And You And I is correct in this case.




No. If the phrase omitted "You And" It would read, "And I" which sounds silly. "And Me" sounds and reads ok. The reflexive (second person) pronoun is the correct one here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 07:32
I always interpeted it as "artistic freedom" and that the first 'and' doesn't stand there because of a summation but rather symbolises that the first (I) and second person (You) are equal. (I do not know if this matters though as I'm not a native speaker.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emigre80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 07:36
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

And You And Me (they were and are appalling at grammar)

And You And I is correct in this case.




No. If the phrase omitted "You And" It would read, "And I" which sounds silly. "And Me" sounds and reads ok. The reflexive (second person) pronoun is the correct one here.
 
"And I" is correct. You would say, for example, "And I would as well," whereas you would never say "And me would as well."  You would say "me" following a preposition (such as "please hand it to me") but in this case, "And I climb over the seas to the valley" leaves out the "and you" and remains correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 08:41
Yes, "And I would as well," is correct. However, one would not say "Give it to him, or you? And I as well." "Give it to him or you? And me." The positioning of the pronoun is important. I would however concede artistic license as the pomposity of the title suits the piece. And You And Me doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael P. Dawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 09:56
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Yes, "And I would as well," is correct. However, one would not say "Give it to him, or you? And I as well." "Give it to him or you? And me." The positioning of the pronoun is important.

Your example has nothing to do with the lyric. In your example, the pronouns are objects of a preposition (to) and take the objective case. In the lyric, the pronouns are subjects of the sentence "And you and I climb crossing the shapes of the morning," so the subjective case is correct. The part that's ungrammatical is that the sentence begins with a conjunction. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael P. Dawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 10:00
(P.S., I can't believe I'm defending the grammar of Yes lyrics, of all things!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 10:41
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

And You And Me (they were and are appalling at grammar)

And You And I is correct in this case.




No. If the phrase omitted "You And" It would read, "And I" which sounds silly. "And Me" sounds and reads ok. The reflexive (second person) pronoun is the correct one here.

I beg to differ

http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w026.html

You can't take "And You and I" on its own. If you omit "And You And" from the phrase "And you and I climb, crossing the shapes of the morning", "I climb" would be correct, "Me climb" clearly would not be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 10:42
Originally posted by Michael P. Dawson Michael P. Dawson wrote:

The part that's ungrammatical is that the sentence begins with a conjunction. Tongue


Yes thanks, I should have said that as well.
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uduwudu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 11:04
No one said anything about climbing. If so, fine. As it stands; not.

Conjunctions now. Excellent stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emigre80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 11:12
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Michael P. Dawson Michael P. Dawson wrote:

The part that's ungrammatical is that the sentence begins with a conjunction. Tongue


Yes thanks, I should have said that as well.
 

"Today’s topic is whether it’s OK to begin a sentence with and, but, or or. The short answer is: yes, and just about all modern grammar books and style guides agree! So who is it that keeps saying it’s wrong to do it? 

It’s Fine to Start a Sentence with a Coordinating Conjunction

And, but, and or are the three most common members of a group of words known as coordinating conjunctions. The question about whether it’s grammatical to begin a sentence with and, but, or or is actually the question of whether it’s grammatical to begin a sentence with a coordinating conjunction. Here’s what some of the big usage guides say on the matter. The one that seems to get quoted the most is the Chicago Manual of Style, which says:

There is a widespread belief—one with no historical or grammatical foundation—that it is an error to begin a sentence with a conjunction such as and, but or so. In fact, a substantial percentage (often as many as 10 percent) of the sentences in first-rate writing begin with conjunctions. It has been so for centuries, and even the most conservative grammarians have followed this practice.

Both Garner’s Modern American Usage, and Fowler’s Modern English Usage call this belief a superstition. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage (or MWDEU) says, “Everybody agrees that it’s all right to begin a sentence with and,” and notes that you can find examples of it all the way back to Old English." 

- See more at: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/can-i-start-a-sentence-with-a-conjunction#sthash.iOt9XvSx.dpuf
 
It is also acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition, which I had always believed was incorrect as well. 
 
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Michael P. Dawson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael P. Dawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 11:30
Well I'll be jiggered. Learn something every day! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emigre80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2016 at 12:11
I can't believe I'm quoting the Chicago Manual of Style - which I loathe - to make a point about the grammatical correctness of Yes lyrics - which I couldn't possibly care less about. But there's a principle at stake here!*
 
*notice how I started that sentence with a conjunction.  Just because I can.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael678 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2016 at 05:46
going for the Symphonic Live version
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