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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20193
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Posted: September 02 2016 at 07:42 |
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, I can think of a good example of this happening, but it's not prog. (The purists can now stop reading this post). I was a huge U2 fan in the mid 80s to mid 90s, even though I thought the band themselves were, shall we say, a bit burdened by excessive self-regard. I was able to forgive that because they seemed so obviously sincere, particularly in their political beliefs. In the early 90s, they released a couple of albums which even showed some signs of irony, which I thought was a good sign because it might leaven their sense of self-importance. The in the late 90s, U2 released an album called Pop which was the most coldly calculating pseudo-hipsterish piece of trash I ever heard, and it really spoiled listening to the earlier albums for a long time. Although I listen to them again now, I haven't really bothered to hear any of their new stuff for 20 years. I was just appalled that they sold out so thoroughly in an attempt to gain some kind of imaginary hipster rep. OTOH, I never had any issue with reconciling prog-Genesis with pop-Genesis. First, they were essentially two different bands (albeit with some members in common) and second, I like clever pop music and that's what pop-Genesis was all about. |
Guess what, if their Pop intent were indeed those you claim (and I don't see a reason to doubt you), they failed heavily U2 were huge from 83 to 93, but with Pop, they just became another rock band... Their new albums are barely noticeable on mainstream radio since then, and only get regular treatment on classic rock station in the old world.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 42970
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Posted: September 02 2016 at 08:00 |
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, I can think of a good example of this happening, but it's not prog. (The purists can now stop reading this post). I was a huge U2 fan in the mid 80s to mid 90s, even though I thought the band themselves were, shall we say, a bit burdened by excessive self-regard. I was able to forgive that because they seemed so obviously sincere, particularly in their political beliefs. In the early 90s, they released a couple of albums which even showed some signs of irony, which I thought was a good sign because it might leaven their sense of self-importance. The in the late 90s, U2 released an album called Pop which was the most coldly calculating pseudo-hipsterish piece of trash I ever heard, and it really spoiled listening to the earlier albums for a long time. Although I listen to them again now, I haven't really bothered to hear any of their new stuff for 20 years. I was just appalled that they sold out so thoroughly in an attempt to gain some kind of imaginary hipster rep. |
hipsters in 1997? I've always liked Pop. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 02 2016 at 21:46 |
Cristi wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, I can think of a good example of this happening, but it's not prog. (The purists can now stop reading this post). I was a huge U2 fan in the mid 80s to mid 90s, even though I thought the band themselves were, shall we say, a bit burdened by excessive self-regard. I was able to forgive that because they seemed so obviously sincere, particularly in their political beliefs. In the early 90s, they released a couple of albums which even showed some signs of irony, which I thought was a good sign because it might leaven their sense of self-importance. The in the late 90s, U2 released an album called Pop which was the most coldly calculating pseudo-hipsterish piece of trash I ever heard, and it really spoiled listening to the earlier albums for a long time. Although I listen to them again now, I haven't really bothered to hear any of their new stuff for 20 years. I was just appalled that they sold out so thoroughly in an attempt to gain some kind of imaginary hipster rep. |
hipsters in 1997? I've always liked Pop. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me.
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I thought it was total rubbish. I'm not disputing your enjoyment of it. I thought it was very cynical and I loathed it.
Edited by emigre80 - September 02 2016 at 21:47
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20193
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Posted: September 03 2016 at 01:15 |
emigre80 wrote:
Cristi wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, I can think of a good example of this happening, but it's not prog. (The purists can now stop reading this post). I was a huge U2 fan in the mid 80s to mid 90s, even though I thought the band themselves were, shall we say, a bit burdened by excessive self-regard. I was able to forgive that because they seemed so obviously sincere, particularly in their political beliefs. In the early 90s, they released a couple of albums which even showed some signs of irony, which I thought was a good sign because it might leaven their sense of self-importance. The in the late 90s, U2 released an album called Pop which was the most coldly calculating pseudo-hipsterish piece of trash I ever heard, and it really spoiled listening to the earlier albums for a long time. Although I listen to them again now, I haven't really bothered to hear any of their new stuff for 20 years. I was just appalled that they sold out so thoroughly in an attempt to gain some kind of imaginary hipster rep. |
hipsters in 1997? I've always liked Pop. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me.
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I thought it was total rubbish. I'm not disputing your enjoyment of it. I thought it was very cynical and I loathed it.
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oh yes, it was definitely cynical... and I can see how that album could ruin whatever image their fans built around the band's aura between albums like Fire and Achtung Baby... But I wouldn't call it rubbish either... I guess that after Achtung, the band was stuck, not really knowing where to go: Zooropa and the "Passenger thing" here anything-goes experiences and should not have been taken seriously (IMHO, anyways) in the band's discography Thing is that while the band straightened out their discourse in their next few albums, but they were simply never at their level again since.
Edited by Sean Trane - September 03 2016 at 01:16
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 03 2016 at 08:05 |
Sean Trane wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Cristi wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, I can think of a good example of this happening, but it's not prog. (The purists can now stop reading this post). I was a huge U2 fan in the mid 80s to mid 90s, even though I thought the band themselves were, shall we say, a bit burdened by excessive self-regard. I was able to forgive that because they seemed so obviously sincere, particularly in their political beliefs. In the early 90s, they released a couple of albums which even showed some signs of irony, which I thought was a good sign because it might leaven their sense of self-importance. The in the late 90s, U2 released an album called Pop which was the most coldly calculating pseudo-hipsterish piece of trash I ever heard, and it really spoiled listening to the earlier albums for a long time. Although I listen to them again now, I haven't really bothered to hear any of their new stuff for 20 years. I was just appalled that they sold out so thoroughly in an attempt to gain some kind of imaginary hipster rep. |
hipsters in 1997? I've always liked Pop. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me.
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I thought it was total rubbish. I'm not disputing your enjoyment of it. I thought it was very cynical and I loathed it.
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oh yes, it was definitely cynical... and I can see how that album could ruin whatever image their fans built around the band's aura between albums like Fire and Achtung Baby...
But I wouldn't call it rubbish either...
I guess that after Achtung, the band was stuck, not really knowing where to go: Zooropa and the "Passenger thing" here anything-goes experiences and should not have been taken seriously (IMHO, anyways) in the band's discography
Thing is that while the band straightened out their discourse in their next few albums, but they were simply never at their level again since.
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I kind of got the point of Achtung, it was serious but ironic and it worked for me. Zooropa was the beginning of the slide downhill. I would have stuck around, even if the albums diminished in quality (All That You Can't Leave Behind, for example, has some really good songs on it), but it was the cynicism of Pop as much as the bad music that put me off.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13000
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Posted: September 03 2016 at 19:00 |
Listening to bands is like having relationships. You listen quite attentively for awhile until the conversations become tedious. Then you ditch the b*tch.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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maryes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 16 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 990
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Posted: September 04 2016 at 10:13 |
I can mention later mediocre ( in my point of view, of course ) albums as for instance : "Big Generator" from YES, "Love Beach" from EL&P, "Vapor Trails" from RUSH etc... But , none of these albums make me feel "dislike" in relation their previous masterpieces !!!
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: September 04 2016 at 21:38 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Listening to bands is like having relationships. You listen quite attentively for awhile until the conversations become tedious. Then you ditch the b*tch. |
You're my hero.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: September 05 2016 at 10:33 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Listening to bands is like having relationships. You listen quite attentively for awhile until the conversations become tedious. Then you ditch the b*tch. |
Classy.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13000
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Posted: September 05 2016 at 10:36 |
CPicard wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Listening to bands is like having relationships. You listen quite attentively for awhile until the conversations become tedious. Then you ditch the b*tch. |
Classy.
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Prog is a very classy genre.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Richey Edwards
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 31 2016
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 72
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Posted: September 08 2016 at 07:44 |
Bad albums don't diminish my enjoyment of previous excellent albums. Marillion - my favourite band - released the dreadful Less Is More Album in 2009 and the concert I saw on that tour at the Glasgow Ferry was really bad. It made me consider whether or not I would bother getting any future releases because I got the impression that the band had ran out of ideas but I never ditched them completely.
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 373
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Posted: September 08 2016 at 10:12 |
Like most contributors to this thread, I feel that mediocre or even outright bad albums do not diminish the appreciation of earlier good albums in any way. Why should, for instance, Close to the Edge be a less excellent album just because there are such things as 90125 (not a bad album, but not on a par with the classics)? That's just nonsense. Often, as in this example, the bands are not even the same because people have joined and others have left in the meantime. And even the greatest artists may sometimes goof up a work - but why bother if there is good stuff to listen to?
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... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
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EleMental
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 21 2011
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: September 17 2016 at 01:41 |
For me, the reverse is true. If a band turns in an accomplished new album, I often enjoy re-immersing myself in their back catalogue at the same time, including less compelling earlier albums.
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Richard Tyson
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 20 2016
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1
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Posted: September 22 2016 at 14:05 |
My first album was Abacab when it came out: my second was Trespass: it really was chalk and cheese but I took to early Genesis very quickly.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: September 22 2016 at 14:37 |
^Explain "chalk and cheese", squire. Was Abacab the chalk (of which I would rather play it [sans No Reply At All] than Less-pass).
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20602
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Posted: September 23 2016 at 14:03 |
Richard Tyson wrote:
My first album was Abacab when it came out: my second was Trespass: it really was chalk and cheese but I took to early Genesis very quickly. |
A giant step forward by going backwards. Cheers.
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fishbender
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 22 2016
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 3
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Posted: September 23 2016 at 14:27 |
You could see the changes happening all the way through to Duke, IMHO the last real Genesis album. Never bought another album after Duke, but still my all time favourite band. Saw them Knebworth 1978, still the best show I have ever seen.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20619
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Posted: September 23 2016 at 15:37 |
Zero effect on me and for the most part I don't buy/own later albums by ELP, Yes, Genesis....if they are stinkers.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65152
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Posted: September 23 2016 at 18:05 |
No, in fact I'd say they enhance the appreciation of the better ones.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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