S.Wilson: "Rap now is more innovative than Rock" |
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 02:34 | ||
Thank god for page 2 and that blasted video / song stopped. What a relief.
Innovative. Phew 70s sci fi synth sounds. After that downhill in a big way. A one chord thrash with atonatlity thrown in. Then you get the non melody that is rap with it's tedious repetition. I mean really... at least so many rock bands went out of their way to try to sound different, to exemplify and celebrate personal identity not crush an conform everyone in this ... mess. Prefer Radiohead - at least the first half of Kid A. Even the last Yes album (just for Steve Howe really btw). Even the Sex Pistols. Even Metal Machine Music. None of which I own, nor intend to do so. I prefer hearing Puff Daddy making a mess of Kashmir (though the Net Aid live version shows he's practiced his tune a bit and Page adds in a new bridge. In short this innovative rap and hip hop is brainless unsophisticated garbage. I was watching a video of some of the most difficult (apparently) guitar music of recent years, Eric Johnson, Dream Theatre all sorts of good stuff all of which was really stunning. Spot of John Mclaughlin in another vid. Brilliant interpretation of some Coltrane. This is music now. It is innovative, it is skilled, not just complex (bass syncopation in either the good music prog, rock, metal music and certainly hip hop is notable by its absence (makes me want to listen to Station To Station all the more. But give someone who wants to hear music something to listen to, not just some teenybop pop ugly music I am so angry at my prog loving parents type crap. Wilson needs his head examined. Innovative? Hahahahaha. I don't think so. If it is, I shudder to think what the roots might be like. (I already know, it's just a figure of speech). Grandmaster Flush and his Furious Five... the whole track stolen from Chic (Good Times) and is the figure head of hip hop. Hahahahaha (reprise). Yowsa yowsa yowsa. This sir, is a massive con perpetrated on a society socialized, conditioned into "thinking" that is "new = good" i.e. a way of distancing yourself from the boring old brigade. Trouble is it isn't, you haven't and you fall into the same old trap. Good god above even that idiot Kanye West is trying to distance himself from rap and hip hop by calling himself a rock star. FYA I heard him that time he nicked 21st CSM for his song and I fell about laughing. This was the big thing? Frank Spencer fronting Motorhead was the thought that came into my admittedly uncharitable mind. This (above examples) is actually the same old old rubbish that has been peddled to the youth community since 1977. Usually by "hip" critix who really know where "it's" at man. I have heard a good hip hop song once, nice tune, about summertime, melodious and all. Quite novel really so it's quite easy to remember even though it was about 20 years ago. About the time of Wake Up Boo. |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 03:06 | ||
SW can do very little wrong in my eyes/ears/mind......... Rap is the final straw......
I like to think (assume) I'm eclectic in my tastes, but rap....?? This claim is rubbish..... |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 03:09 | ||
Who cares what he thinks?
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 04:09 | ||
Hmm. SWilson seems to be talking about songwriting and not the music of the genres per se. That's my take on his very brief statement.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 04:47 | ||
I'm thinking SWilson will find something redeeming in anything from Mel & Kim, to Pet Shop Boys to Bros. Good for him, I still admire the dude.
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5807 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 06:43 | ||
so being melodic (or even having melodic COMPLEXITY) is something hip-hop was trying to do from time to time (G-Funk <3), but it's not its main goal anyway. |
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Mascodagama
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 06:50 | ||
^ Last Poets, Gil Scott-Heron and Umar Bin Hassan rule
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
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Mascodagama
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 07:02 | ||
Amusing to note that whilst Wilson's music is 40 years out of date his critical opinions are only 30 years behind the times. Because I've been reading bien pensant music critics in hip pop rags saying that rock is dead and hip-hop is where the real creativity is at since the late eighties. Probably if you looked hard enough they were saying it in the early eighties. Wasn't entirely true (or entirely false) then, and isn't now - though arguably it was truer then than now.
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile |
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5807 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 07:11 | ||
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 08:26 | ||
The only genuinely interesting things about threads like this are twofold:
(Currently) Three pages of shrill indifference to whatever Steven Wilson thinks of anything outside the aesthetic cul de sac of PA definitions that were created when Prog was still a living organism AND the PA membership being asked their opinion on music the vast majority have never heard c/f music they joined up to celebrate that resembles Prog like a greenfly resembles a rose FFS etc |
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5807 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 12:56 | ||
Yep, let's not turn this thread into a I HATE HIP-HOP YOWSA YOWSA one |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 13:54 | ||
^No, lets. Stuff your rap and hip hop. This is a prog site, friend.
Edited by SteveG - August 01 2017 at 14:12 |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20501 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 16:03 | ||
Someone said who cares what Wilson thinks.....that sounds right to me.
Personally I have never cared much for rap or hip hop...and I have no clue why it's innovative....maybe someone can explain it to me. ;) |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64678 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 16:08 | ||
^ No, they can't. You have to be exposed to something really good, like when a friend who knows the genre plays something that makes you go "Wow, that is great."
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5807 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 16:44 | ||
SteveG, there's no point in being mean, nobody's taking your sweet-sweet prog away from you. Feel free to avoid this thread if you have nothing else to add)
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12612 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 21:27 | ||
Whatever Waters is singing about doesn't bother me at all. I usually rather admire his lyrics and concepts (even if they have become somewhat predictable)... but I found his new album rather underwhelming. Perhaps indeed his most Pink Floyd sounding album, but without Gilmour's guitars, nor Wrights soundscapes, nor the beautiful instrumental passages that both of them would help create on the songs, nor their trademark female backig vocals, nor Dick Parrys beautiful sax passages... and indeed it comes to show how much he needed all those elements and people to make his ideas come to life and really shine. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64678 |
Posted: August 01 2017 at 21:48 | ||
^ Good point, which is why the individuals in a band are so important and simply replacing a player here or there has a huge impact.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
Posted: August 02 2017 at 04:02 | ||
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: August 02 2017 at 05:27 | ||
I'm selective. Station is an awesome album. Just because someone says rap is innovative etc means absolutely noting until there is a base for comparison. Innovative? Doing what exactly? It's more deadly formulaic than the worse thrash. It is designed to be ugly, offensive etc. In that regard it works very well. Still. It also is very disappointing. This sort of thing should have some grooves going. Only they never happened. Beyond the sampling of course. Unless... we're not REALLY talking music but the thing people really blab about. Pop culture. If you get your kicks in identifying your tribe with this rap thing fine. But don't let it be confused with music. Not to worry, I got over it with some real out dated music. Elgar's Cello Concerto. Aka, real music. |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14208 |
Posted: August 02 2017 at 09:24 | ||
1) I don't mind Wilson telling his fans that they should find and try out some great hip hop in this way. I don't buy what he's literally saying but I don't mind much either. He's a musician, he shouldn't be judged by his interviews.
2) Anyone who thinks that "prog" is a good name for any kind of musical genre deserves to be drawn into endless tedious "prog vs. progressive" discussions and to be annoyed by interviews in which somebody states that xyz is more innovative or even more progressive than prog. (And I'm saying this as somebody who finds more to love under the prog than under almost any other label.) 3) Can somebody teach me about the precise meanings of "rap" and "hip hop"? I thought that rap is not a musical genre but rather a style of delivering the vocals which is in principle compatible with all kinds of genres including prog. On the other hand I thought that hip hop indeed is a name of a genre, one of its features (among others) is rap vocals. But I see people all the time using these terms in an exchangeable manner, and all kinds of stuff is branded hip hop that has little in common except the rap. Anyone to sort out this mess? Edited by Lewian - August 02 2017 at 09:26 |
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