Sexual Misconduct Allegations

Concerning all the sexual misconduct allegations, not just in politics, but in general:

Don’t get me wrong; I am pretty convinced that all those women are telling the truth and the perpetrators should suffer the consequences of their actions, but whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty” as an essential factor in western law?

Again, to be clear, the culprits should be punished, but within the confines of the law, just as it applies to any other alleged crimes.

I’m leaving aside the unpleasant matter of determining the truth in these cases, especially for the accusers. That’s a giant and extremely delicate process I don’t intend to get into at the moment for reasons of subject constraint at this point.

But: people getting fired from their jobs or positions without due process seems something that could well open the floodgates to misuse.

If anyone ill-intentioned sees that any allegation is sufficient to get people discredited or lose their jobs, it will inevitably lead to a multitude of unfounded but credible sounding accusations just to get rid of a rival, a boss, an unwanted subordinate, and, and, and. Where will it end?

As unpleasant as it seems, I think that the accused should remain in their posts (unless substantial proof is provided or they step down voluntarily), until the matter is officially settled.

Of course that would lead to extremely nasty circumstances, such we might see with Roy Moore as senator, if he were elected, but people getting fired or forced to resign purely on the accusers’ words just isn’t sufficient in the western system.

We all know what happened during the McCarthy era, when the pure accusation of someone being a communist was enough to land them in jail for years. It seems that a similar path is being set right now.

Agreed.  While the majority of these allegations are likely true, it isn't below some people to make false claims knowing their targets will be tarred and feathered in the media before a proper investigation has even begun.  If the allegations are false, then the accusers should be prosecuted to the full extent or sued for damages in civil court...if they are true, then that has to be prosecuted just as seriously, but ruining someone's career solely based on an un-investigated accusation seems like a witch hunt.

It's shocking how practically all of these sexual monsters are relatively wealthy and successful men. What is it about money that drives men to such actions?

I don't know, what is there to prove?   Most of these men aren't being prosecuted or even indicted, they're being fired.   Just like many women have been fired because they wouldn't welcome some horny loser's advances.  

McCarthy?   Give me a break-- Joe McCarthy was  a vicious, racist drunk who should've been taken out well before he was removed from HUAC.   He destroyed whole families, marriages and lives.   To compare this with McCarthyism is disproportionate and misled.

npjnpj wrote: Agreed, I get your point. I have to concede that Donald Trump is a vicious, racist tea totaler, so that's a world of difference. Sorry about that.

Well, since you mention him...I was just thinking how strange it is that the dozen or so women who accused him of sexual misconduct during the campaign have just magically all seemed to vanish from public view.  Where are they and why have they gone silent?  You'd think with all the press given to Roy Moore/Al Franken/other politicians and their past misdeeds that the accusations against Trump would surface again.
 
Have these women all been bought off with settlements and non-disclosure agreements?  Have they been intimidated by Trump attorney's with their cease-and-desist letters?  Were they really valid accusations in the first place?  Don't really know for sure what to believe about the accuracy of these claims but I'd really like to know what the real story is.  If they're true, Mr T has a lot of explaining to do.

The.Crimson.King wrote: npjnpj wrote: Agreed, I get your point. I have to concede that Donald Trump is a vicious, racist tea totaler, so that's a world of difference. Sorry about that. Well, since you mention him...I was just thinking how strange it is that the dozen or so women who accused him of sexual misconduct during the campaign have just magically all seemed to vanish from public view.  Where are they and why have they gone silent?  You'd think with all the press given to Roy Moore/Al Franken/other politicians and their past misdeeds that the accusations against Trump would surface again.   Have these women all been bought off with settlements and non-disclosure agreements?  Have they been intimidated by Trump attorney's with their cease-and-desist letters?  Were they really valid accusations in the first place?  Don't really know for sure what to believe about the accuracy of these claims but I'd really like to know what the real story is.  If they're true, Mr T has a lot of explaining to do.

The.Crimson.King wrote: Agreed.  While the majority of these allegations are likely true, it isn't below some people to make false claims knowing their targets will be tarred and feathered in the media before a proper investigation has even begun.  If the allegations are false, then the accusers should be prosecuted to the full extent or sued for damages in civil court...if they are true, then that has to be prosecuted just as seriously, but ruining someone's career solely based on an un-investigated accusation seems like a witch hunt.

Edited by The Dark Elf - November 29 2017 at 19:42

Vompatti wrote: It's shocking how practically all of these sexual monsters are relatively wealthy and successful men. What is it about money that drives men to such actions?

I don't think it has anything to do with money - it's just that we don't hear about all the unknown men who get accused.

Sexual abuse is rife across all demographics. The rich and famous are better connected and therefore better able to cover their tracks. All of these liberal Hollywood luvvies that are now falling from grace were all connected to the political establishment, in particular the democrat party. In the UK, the likes of Jimmy Saville was close friends with numerous prime ministers and senior royals. His crimes were known by many for decades. Had he been an avarage Joe who worked in an office or a coffee shop he would have been shopped and concivted 30 years ago.

Hewas described here as a 'national treasure' although most people I know regarded him as a creep. Those calling him a national treasure appeared to be those in high places who knew him, and I believe, knew what he was up to.

This whole business of what's acceptable and what isn't to the accuser is just one big gray area that fluctuates constantly, depending on things like mood, time of day, physical well being, general hornyness, and how good the person looks who is making advances, even if someone does draw up a catalogue of demeanours.

That's not even counting what should constitute proof of accusation.

And this could open a completely new chapter in the field of blackmail.