Reasons for continously highest rated Prog albums? |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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A Neosaur asked a Progasaur: "How am I doing?" The Progasaur answered: "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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thanks, Lewian
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Where Have I Known You Before?
Edited by David_D - September 21 2022 at 09:27 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 7972 |
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I understand, however, the first time you heard "Gates of Delirium" or "The Musical Box" or "Take a Pebble" or "Thick as a Brick" or "Close to the Edge" or "Awaken" or even Kind of Blue or Giant Steps or Days of Future Passed or "Ode to Joy" or Turandot or Don Giovanni or films like The Lion in Winter or Apocalypse Now or 2001: A Space Odyssey didn't you feel as if you were in the presence of mastery--that you were hearing something that was revolutionary, Earth-shattering and/or soul-awakening? Some masterpieces, I believe, are self-evident. Even upon initial contact. They are just that powerful. |
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Thank you very much for this post, Bruford. Can you say something more about how it can be that some albums can be experienced as such masterpieces? The reasons for it? |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 10130 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14186 |
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Well, yes and no. For me I'd say that something can strike me like this at first listen, and often enough it will stand the test of time, but ultimately there are also things that strike me a lot at first listen but lose much of their appeal (I'm by far not as convinced as I was aged 17 that Eloy has produced a couple of masterpieces), and others take some time, and in some cases it takes me years to realise that I think something is a masterpiece (e.g. Tangerine Dream - Zeit).
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16428 |
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I tend to agree with Lewian on this one. But as much as we tend to focus on the "impression" that some of these things tend to take in our imaginations, we seem to forget that it was the time OF THE MEDIA that helped make it more important that it might have been. A perfect example would be showing 2001 today, and how many folks would end up saying that it was boring, stupid and had no action ... and the music was old and outdated. However, it's moment IN TIME has stood out more than a lot of things that were not that impressive, but somehow, we think they are ... Relayer is one such piece in that it is nowhere near the quality or level of excellence that TFTO has to offer ... but some fans loved it and hated the sermon that Jon delivered! When listening to things from yesterday, it is important, VERY IMPORTANT, to remember that things are not the same today as yesterday, and anyone considering Tarkus a rock song, is not a fan of progressive music whatsoever, but what I would consider a very uneducated fan when it comes to music. One look at Rachel Flowers doing this solo on the piano, will tell you that this is a masterpiece piano concerto, but top five and rock fans hate that thought and idea ... because it takes the glamour from their commercial idea and thoughts. This is one of the reasons why I tell folks to unplug things ... let's see what "music" do we have under it all ... and too many bands are afraid of doing that because no one will recognize how poorly they did in the first place when compared to many other things spanning some 55 years of rock music. Fans, TODAY, still don't know what "progressive music" meant and was ... at all ... beyond some stupid format created by cretons and geeks who were upset that their "favorites" were not listed in the top five! Heck even Virgin Records did that an eon ago and got away with it ... a lot of their stuff went on to sell well, although it was found that the man with the colored balls ripped off so many folks ... but that is allowed in England if you are super rich and own half the country! The imperial army of the dead rich will never allow that fact to be shown or seen! Ratings are ... a joke, and we don't spend our time rating Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Stravinsky ... and anyone would be stupid to do so! Favorites and preferences are OK, but most of us would shrimp/skimp on deciding which I like best ... the 5th, the 9th, or The Rite ... it's a ridiculous idea to think "ratings" when you look at it in the proper context, which is completely ignored here, for the most part, in my estimation! There is no respect, or appreciation for the history of the music with a rating! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Jared
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I'm 54 and still under the impression that Eloy released at least a couple of masterpieces..
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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So some guys are maybe just lucky, others not, and it should have nothing to do with talent, socialization and hard work, for not to talk about all the general cultural circumstances in a particular period of time?
Edited by David_D - September 22 2022 at 12:01 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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If we only look at it at one-person-level (the individual one), we will never be able to understand the inter-subjectivity which occurs in the top lists.
Edited by David_D - September 22 2022 at 11:21 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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I could also say, Jared, that you seem to have missed Lewian's point here. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41635 |
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You seem to have missed that Jared made a joke.
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David_D
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Firstly, sorry for that my thread title could very probably be more precise, as I've actually had meant classics, and yet understood as those of the many years old albums which today are amongst the highest rated. - So I now allowed myself to change the thread title a bit. Now, I think there're many different reasons for the existence of such classics, but to understand some of the main ones, we have to look at it as a relation between some albums and Prog fans/aficionados, that is as resonating. Some albums are not born as "masterpieces". Even they surely need to possess certain qualities to become classics, so it's not randomly which albums do and which not, many different circumstances determine which potential albums actually do it. |
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David_D
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And you seem to have missed my purpose with that post, and why do you have to "constantly" correct me? Edited by David_D - September 23 2022 at 04:09 |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41635 |
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constantly? I will stop correcting you when you stop constantly editing everything. Also quoting yourself and constantly resurrecting your own threads & mentioning your own threads in other threads. When will that happen?
Edited by Cristi - September 23 2022 at 04:18 |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Anyway, it's not so strange that at least some members find the atmosphere on the PA forum to be not so good. Neither, does it contribute well to some serious discussions like this thread which quite a lot of members seem to be fond of.
Edited by David_D - September 23 2022 at 07:50 |
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Jared
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With respect David, I don't think I did; sometimes my sense of humour can be quite dry and self-deprecating. Lewian was expressing the opinion that at 17, he was under the impression that at the height of their powers, Eloy had released several masterpieces (he will almost certainly be referring to Dawn - Ocean - Silent Cries) however now he is older, he believes they weren't, rather citing early TD in this vein, with the inference that he has matured in his view. That's all fine and I have no argument with him. I was making the point that at 54, I am still under the impression that Eloy released a few masterpieces, not having matured in my musical tastes sufficiently, to match his own point of view. I'm sure he understood the humour.
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David_D
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Concerning progasaurs or dinosaurs, I just got the book Citizens of Hope and Glory: The Story of Progressive Rock (2013) and had a look at it. There's a lot of photos of the 70's bands members but taken in the 00's, and that made me thinking "that's true dinosaurs". By the way, I don't see the point of all these rather new photos in a history book, and in my opinion it would surely be better with historical photos, and if that should be too expensive to do, it would certainly be better with none, or best with more pictures of the covers. So Paul, my first impression of this book is not so positive.
Edited by David_D - September 23 2022 at 09:23 |
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moshkito
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Hi, Weird that you talk about this in a way where old folks need to fall over and die! And, of course, you think that only the young bucks have the goods, but you do not listen to music, and you don't know many other musicians that are quite old, and they still produce at a very high level, but because your silliness stands at historical bs ... it just says, that you have no idea what the music is, or is about! Right ... PH is still alive and well. So is Roy Harper. So is Bob Dylan. So is Neil Young. Take your historical snapshots and burn them ... an artist will produce until the day he/she falls over ... but you wouldn't EVER understand that!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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