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David_D
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 11:11 |
Jared wrote:
David_D wrote:
I could also say, Jared, that you seem to have missed Lewian's point here. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
With respect David, I don't think I did; sometimes my sense of humour can be quite dry and self-deprecating.
Lewian was expressing the opinion that at 17, he was under the impression that at the height of their powers, Eloy had released several masterpieces (he will almost certainly be referring to Dawn - Ocean - Silent Cries) however now he is older, he believes they weren't, rather citing early TD in this vein, with the inference that he has matured in his view. That's all fine and I have no argument with him.
I was making the point that at 54, I am still under the impression that Eloy released a few masterpieces, not having matured in my musical tastes sufficiently, to match his own point of view. I'm sure he understood the humour. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
Yes, but he was arguing with Bruford's "Some masterpieces, I believe, are self-evident. Even upon initial contact. They are just that powerful.", and pointing that "in some cases it takes me years to realise that I think something is a masterpiece", or the contradictory, with Eloy.
Edited by David_D - September 23 2022 at 11:30
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Cristi
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 12:04 |
David_D wrote:
Jared wrote:
David_D wrote:
I could also say, Jared, that you seem to have missed Lewian's point here. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
With respect David, I don't think I did; sometimes my sense of humour can be quite dry and self-deprecating.
Lewian was expressing the opinion that at 17, he was under the impression that at the height of their powers, Eloy had released several masterpieces (he will almost certainly be referring to Dawn - Ocean - Silent Cries) however now he is older, he believes they weren't, rather citing early TD in this vein, with the inference that he has matured in his view. That's all fine and I have no argument with him.
I was making the point that at 54, I am still under the impression that Eloy released a few masterpieces, not having matured in my musical tastes sufficiently, to match his own point of view. I'm sure he understood the humour. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
Yes, but he was arguing with Bruford's "Some masterpieces, I believe, are self-evident. Even upon initial contact. They are just that powerful.", and pointing that "in some cases it takes me years to realise that I think something is a masterpiece", or the contradictory, with Eloy.
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Drew and Lewian were not arguing. Just a regular conversation, different opinions, but definitely not arguing.
"Disagree" and 'argue" are not synonyms.
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 12:29 |
Cristi wrote:
David_D wrote:
Jared wrote:
David_D wrote:
I could also say, Jared, that you seem to have missed Lewian's point here. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
With respect David, I don't think I did; sometimes my sense of humour can be quite dry and self-deprecating.
Lewian was expressing the opinion that at 17, he was under the impression that at the height of their powers, Eloy had released several masterpieces (he will almost certainly be referring to Dawn - Ocean - Silent Cries) however now he is older, he believes they weren't, rather citing early TD in this vein, with the inference that he has matured in his view. That's all fine and I have no argument with him.
I was making the point that at 54, I am still under the impression that Eloy released a few masterpieces, not having matured in my musical tastes sufficiently, to match his own point of view. I'm sure he understood the humour. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
Yes, but he was arguing with Bruford's "Some masterpieces, I believe, are self-evident. Even upon initial contact. They are just that powerful.", and pointing that "in some cases it takes me years to realise that I think something is a masterpiece", or the contradictory, with Eloy.
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Drew and Lewian were not arguing. Just a regular conversation, different opinions, but definitely not arguing.
"Disagree" and 'argue" are not synonyms. |
I agree, for the sake of argument. ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif)
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David_D
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 13:23 |
David_D wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
^ What bands with their first release twenty years ago can compete with the progasours? |
Concerning progasaurs or dinosaurs, I just got the book Citizens of Hope and Glory: The Story of Progressive Rock (2013) and had a look at it. There's a lot of photos of the 70's bands members but taken in the 00's, and that made me thinking "that's true dinosaurs". ![Big smile Big smile](smileys/smiley4.gif)
By the way, I don't see the point of all these rather new photos in a history book, and in my opinion it would surely be better with historical photos, and if that should be too expensive to do, it would certainly be better with none, or best with more pictures of the covers.
So Paul, my first impression of this book is not so positive.
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But the first chapter certainly is. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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David_D
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 14:24 |
Cristi wrote:
"Disagree" and 'argue" are not synonyms.
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Very sorry, according to my English dictionary, "argue" have some different meanings and one of them is synonymous with "discuss".
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Cristi
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 14:27 |
David_D wrote:
Cristi wrote:
"Disagree" and 'argue" are not synonyms.
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Very sorry, according to my English dictionary, "argue" have some different meanings and one of them is synonymous with "discuss". |
1. give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view. "sociologists argue that inequalities in industrial societies are being reduced" 2. exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way. "the two men started arguing in a local pub"
Edited by Cristi - September 23 2022 at 14:29
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Lewian
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 14:52 |
Jared wrote:
David_D wrote:
I could also say, Jared, that you seem to have missed Lewian's point here. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
With respect David, I don't think I did; sometimes my sense of humour can be quite dry and self-deprecating.
Lewian was expressing the opinion that at 17, he was under the impression that at the height of their powers, Eloy had released several masterpieces (he will almost certainly be referring to Dawn - Ocean - Silent Cries) however now he is older, he believes they weren't, rather citing early TD in this vein, with the inference that he has matured in his view. That's all fine and I have no argument with him.
I was making the point that at 54, I am still under the impression that Eloy released a few masterpieces, not having matured in my musical tastes sufficiently, to match his own point of view. I'm sure he understood the humour. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) | Yep, I was totally fine with your posting. If that helps. ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) By the way, now I think that some other Eloy albums (those following Silent Cries) are quite a bit closer to masterpieces than the earlier ones. But of course this isn't an Eloy thread. ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif)
Edited by Lewian - September 23 2022 at 14:54
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 15:01 |
David_D wrote:
David_D wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
^ What bands with their first release twenty years ago can compete with the progasours? |
Concerning progasaurs or dinosaurs, I just got the book Citizens of Hope and Glory: The Story of Progressive Rock (2013) and had a look at it. There's a lot of photos of the 70's bands members but taken in the 00's, and that made me thinking "that's true dinosaurs". ![Big smile Big smile](smileys/smiley4.gif)
By the way, I don't see the point of all these rather new photos in a history book, and in my opinion it would surely be better with historical photos, and if that should be too expensive to do, it would certainly be better with none, or best with more pictures of the covers.
So Paul, my first impression of this book is not so positive.
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But the first chapter certainly is. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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Ah, but you still have the chapter on Neo Prog to look forward to, featuring Beardfish, Echolyn, The Flower Kings, Oceansize, & Spock's Beard amongst many others. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 23 2022 at 15:02
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David_D
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Posted: September 23 2022 at 15:48 |
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Ah, but you still have the chapter on Neo Prog to look forward to, featuring Beardfish, Echolyn, The Flower Kings, Oceansize, & Spock's Beard amongst many others. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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Yes, I'm looking forward to it. ![Big smile Big smile](smileys/smiley4.gif)
Edited by David_D - September 23 2022 at 16:30
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David_D
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 04:17 |
Amnesty International is a good thing. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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David_D
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 07:39 |
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Ah, but you still have the chapter on Neo Prog to look forward to, featuring Beardfish, Echolyn, The Flower Kings, Oceansize, & Spock's Beard amongst many others. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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This book seems to have influenced your understanding of Progressive Rock.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 09:06 |
Some albums have maybe 10, 15, 20, 30 ratings and that's about it. After a while people forget about them. Then other albums seem to have "legs" and they keep growing. This is probably more common with older bands and albums but there's more recent stuff like that too. When a band gets a good reputation and becomes popular then often their popularity will grow. You can call it the band wagon effect or whatever. I've noticed on the prog reddit group that they seem to talk about the same 20-30 bands over and over again (same with prog face book groups). There's even more modern bands like that but most of them are prog-metal. "Oh, Thank You Scientist, Haken and The Mars Volta are the cool bands? Ok, I'll check them out."
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 24 2022 at 09:07
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 09:28 |
David_D wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Ah, but you still have the chapter on Neo Prog to look forward to, featuring Beardfish, Echolyn, The Flower Kings, Oceansize, & Spock's Beard amongst many others. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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This book seems to have influenced your understanding of Progressive Rock. |
Yes, having read Citizens of Hope and Glory nearly a decade ago, I didn't feel such a complete ingenue when joining PA three years ago. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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David_D
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 14:41 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
When a band gets a good reputation and becomes popular then often their popularity will grow. You can call it the band wagon effect or whatever. |
It's a good point, FlowerKC, that worshipping of certain albums is a part of worshipping of certain bands - even it's not like that for everybody.
Edited by David_D - September 24 2022 at 14:50
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Jaketejas
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Posted: September 24 2022 at 16:24 |
The bandwagon effect was important for bands to reach the commercial level so that they could continue to create. Unfortunately, the bandwagon effect could also have an element of The Emperor’s New Clothes associated with it, especially when inspiration was waning or the process became more like churning. Nowadays, the model is quite different. Most people I run into who enjoy music run through a playlist of songs from various popular artists. Not as many people are into music to the level that jazz, classical, and Prog followers are. There is more loyalty to artists and perhaps more openness to new sounds.
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David_D
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Posted: September 25 2022 at 13:24 |
For some reasons, Hugh Manatee hasn't been participating in this thread (maybe yet), but I think that it should be okay to mention what he has said previously in relation to this topic, as I find it to be one of the good points of view to present here for consideration:
Hugh Manatee wrote:
The more exposure a piece of music gets, the more likely it is to become "popular". The more "popular" a piece of music gets, the more likely it is to get exposure. |
Edited by David_D - September 25 2022 at 13:26
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Jaketejas
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Posted: September 25 2022 at 15:01 |
Yes, that’s a great point. I really appreciate the DIYers out there who are writing and recording their inspired music whether or not they are trying to make a living. There is a lot of funny-business going on, though, where people are buying views and up-votes. One band even booked a venue where they didn’t perform claiming that they had as part of a tour. There is a certain amount of money that must be spent on promotion at any level, but there are also lines that shouldn’t be crossed. It is especially tough for musicians and songwriters venturing out today. I’d say keep your day job!
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David_D
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Posted: October 04 2022 at 12:26 |
Lewian wrote:
The test of time basically means that I still like an album many years later, it still sounds fresh and not dated. Which is obviously very subjective. I'm reluctant to call anything a masterpiece that is only around for a year or a few years. Knowing about lasting influence of an album also requires it to be around for some more time.
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What would you say is required for an album to sound "fresh and not dated" many years after its release?
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