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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PA Album of the Year Discussion thread
    Posted: December 01 2023 at 12:34
Since the PA Album of the Year open to PA members (read OP) got rather convoluted with official lists, non official lists, tech discussion, rules discussion, discussion on albums, discussion on discussions (we're trying something very new, and amazing how well it came together with a lot of hard work from Mike), I am creating this topic to move posts from the older topic into that are not user lists for the album of the year.

Feel free to rap about your choices here etc. and use the other topic for your lists intended for the AOTY event. Thanks.

And a note: Please have your lists in and finalised by the end of January, 2023.



Edited by Logan - January 09 2024 at 09:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2023 at 14:19
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

''Voter fraud'' , we are aren't electing the next president of the universe LOL

You're right, the proper term is match fixing Wink LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 10:10
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Credit where credit is due, while I have not posted there in many years, and don;t remember my account details, I went through the album of the year topic at progressive ears and found it good reading. Some good discussion of albums there and lists. It might also be useful to some to read to get ideas. I tried to register again there yesterday, as I rather feel like this should be one big prog/art/progressive/experimental music community despite the address/url. Also, when one site is slow might be easier to find conversation (I like internet forum discussion but I am not very good at it) with users at the other site.

https://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/30661-ALBUMS-OF-THE-YEAR-2023


I did check it out recently and there was an interesting exchange between Steve Babb (Glass Hammer) and various forum users. I discovered that Fred Schendel is not really a big part of the band of the anymore (it was always Babb and Schendel for years) and only guested on the recent album Arise. I have been a follower of the band for 20 years and it was fascinating to read some very candid stuff. I wonder why actual musicians like Babb don't feel they can post here? Are we just way too elitist? That's been my concern for a long time tbh.





While we have had musicians who posted here in the past like Phideaux and Steven Wilson, it has been noted that Progreswsive Ears has attracted more serious music artists and there have been more oif the kinds of topics you mention. Reddit is big place for Ask Me Anythings with artists and people of different stripes. I would not think we are more elitist here than at Progressive Ears, and I have read a PE member claiming that the people generally at PE are way more knowledgeable than at PA. One reputation that the PA forum has is that the users are obsessed by lists, and so there is less actual back-and-forth discussion here. Indeed, compared to forums I frequented before joining this site, there is much less back-and-forth conversation here/ discussion. And we have so many forums that it can be confusing. Also looking at the active topics, often it gets flooded with very short responses so having an ongoing conversation with an artist becomes harder as it is more likely to get swept away. This board feels more like one big Just For Fun than others forums I have visited, which could be off-putting to some serious artists. And we have had some problematic/ judgmental members at times whose negativity/ criticisms could be off-putting and might not lead to the best forum rep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 01:55
^ Ideally every dedicated PA user should submit ratings (and reviews) for their favorite releases (and AP users should do the same at AP), but there's often things that get in the way (from the life most of us have outside of music) and we forget. That's one of the reasons why I like doing these lists, the activity of putting it together lets you reflect on what you listened to.

As I have, annoyingly, been pointing out, I have listened to more than 250 releases of 2023 - and I've also rated all of them and written blurbs or even some lengthy reviews for some of them. But the releases list which I submitted here is more than just my ratings sorted. I have left out some highly rated releases as well as included some with a little lower rating. My ratings are fluctuating as I am listening to these releases again. And even with the AP rating system which allows for more fine-grained ratings than PA, With that many releases to sort, the ratings are too crude.

TL;DR: Ratings have their place - and we all should rate our favorite releases - but manual lists have a different quality and can offer a different perspective.

Regarding the question of whether to make it a top 10 or top 20: With 2023 in particular, I would opt to make it a top 40, since there were so many great releases (not saying we should actually do that, it's just what I would prefer). Whatever number we choose, while people can submit shorter lists, it rewards those who can name more releases since they get more points to distribute. But I think that this reward makes sense, and given that it was such a great year, allowing 20 entries rather than 10 leads to a more diverse end result. 


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - January 09 2024 at 02:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 12:57
^ Sure, having a lot of discussion in this thread is not a problem at all for the results collection. Smile

And people can post informal lists here as well (like Saperlipopette did above), they will just not be included in the calculation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 13:01
^ Thanks, sounds good. I do like the informal. I do hope that Saperlipopette! and others do post lists for the calculation, but that's up to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 13:14
I've just implemented two new features for the tool: 
1. Text search for the selection, just type part of the artist or release name to find a release.
2. On the results page only one user chart at a time is shown, there is a dropdown which you can the users already considered (currently there are a few collabs who have already posted their lists in an internal beta-testing thread).
3. I've fixed the link back to the pa forum on the collection page (it still linked to the internal thread).



Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 01 2023 at 15:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 20:47
Weirdly I'm not seeing my votes in the individual table any more by they've still been counted in the totals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 22:23
Look for the dropdown on the results page in the right column, you can select which user to display.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 23:40
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Thanks, sounds good. I do like the informal. I do hope that Saperlipopette! and others do post lists for the calculation, but that's up to them.

I won't splice my favorites into prog and none prog. I don't mind at all not being included for calculation. Imo the five artists/groups not on PA among my first six mentioned - are progressive artists good as any anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 23:51
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Thanks, sounds good. I do like the informal. I do
hope that Saperlipopette! and others do post lists for the calculation,
but that's up to them.

I won't splice my favorites into prog and none prog. I don't mind at all not being included for calculation. Imo the five artists/groups not on PA among my first six mentioned - are progressive artists good as any anyway.


I have two lists myself as I care about more than what is in PA. One I labelled in PA and the other not in PA. It's more practical to have some restrictions for the actual PA album of the year. with Mike's website, he has the albums in PA ready to go. If it's there it's includable for the "Albums in PA" part. Other albums and bands may be added later.

I often don't think the Prog/ non-Prog dichotomy works. So much of what I like I consider under that umbrella whether it's in PA or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2023 at 00:26
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Thanks, sounds good. I do like the informal. I do hope that Saperlipopette! and others do post lists for the calculation, but that's up to them.

I won't splice my favorites into prog and none prog. I don't mind at all not being included for calculation. Imo the five artists/groups not on PA among my first six mentioned - are progressive artists good as any anyway.

There is indeed an inconvenience about setting up a list strictly about whatever is included in PA's DB. I've found that increasingly frustrating to have to convince (often to no avail) some stubborn PA collab or the slowness of some teams to at least listen and come quick to a declsion about inclusion.  part of the issue is the presence of the DB itself (which is a pride in itself) as a bibble. It's even happened that I've been denied a vote for an artist that will find its way onto our DB a couple of years later (can't remember who, though). 

Soooooooooo, I've been setting up separate lists for years, publishing them both on PA, PE, JMA & R6070 (I think you know bout the last one). Whatever doesn't fit into whatever PA declares "prog" finds itself on the other list and that's that. but indeed the construction of the list happens in the same bag of albums and one of the harder chores is actually to go check whatever is on our DB and setting aside what isn't. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2023 at 07:10
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Look for the dropdown on the results page in the right column, you can select which user to display.

Right, got that, how do I edit it to add new stuff and resort?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2023 at 09:29
^ You just post a new list in this thread, and your chart will be updated when I collect the results ... 

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 02 2023 at 15:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2023 at 15:24
Still waiting for the first non-collab list ... Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 02:52
^ Nice! Added to the chart Smile

Only 9 users have voted, but there‘s already 118 releases in the chart. 2023 is a really good year for prog!

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 03 2023 at 03:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 10:13
^^ Thanks George. I had asked to open this up to non-Collabs and got agreement and was beginning to wonder if that was a mistake, thinking there's a reason why people who opted to become Collabs would be more likely to participate (collaborate), and it's in the title of Collaborator. You would be a superb collab, by the way, but not all have the time or inclination.

I think it would be a wonderful participatory exercise if more people did collaborate on this. That said, there's still a while to go for this year, and some might want to wait. of course one can add to and edit ones choices later. I still have lots of listening to do and albums to discover.

I like that Goat album, had only heard it once. Had loved what I heard of Teeth of the Sea, and listening to the album now, and that will go to my list later I'm confident. Had heard some Agusa before too and liked it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 17:36
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I had asked to open this up to non-Collabs and got agreement and was beginning to wonder if that was a mistake, thinking there's a reason why people who opted to become Collabs would be more likely to participate (collaborate), and it's in the title of Collaborator.
Participate and collaborate are not the same. Paul and David should be Collaborators if participating is the only criteria.

I'm disappointed that you (an administrator) think non-collabs input in this poll was a "mistake".

Care to explain your comment? And when the results are complete could you post how many collabs and non-collabs participated?

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - December 03 2023 at 18:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 18:21
^I interpreted Greg's comment to mean that he was thinking he made a mistake in asking for non-collaborators to participate because of lack of response.

I think he wants non-collaborator participation and is not opposed to it.

This is only the first week in December so I think most people (collaborators and non) need time. My list will change. I know that. I have albums that I still want to hear.

But, I wanted to give some input now. And to give Mike's setup a try. It's really nice.

I think collaborators are more likely to hear a wide breadth of new releases and possibly more inclined to do so.

I think this system/set up is nice with the understanding to have people rank what they do know and you can see rankings as they happen.

I find it useful to see what is "popular" among participants in the forum rather than just having ratings. PA's limitation to whole number of stars doesn't help distinguish albums.

I prefer these types of lists over just ratings to get recommendations for myself.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 18:35
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^^ Thanks George. I had asked to open this up to non-Collabs and got agreement and was beginning to wonder if that was a mistake, thinking there's a reason why people who opted to become Collabs would be more likely to participate (collaborate), and it's in the title of Collaborator. You would be a superb collab, by the way, but not all have the time or inclination.

I think it would be a wonderful participatory exercise if more people did collaborate on this. That said, there's still a while to go for this year, and some might want to wait. of course one can add to and edit ones choices later. I still have lots of listening to do and albums to discover.

I like that Goat album, had only heard it once. Had loved what I heard of Teeth of the Sea, and listening to the album now, and that will go to my list later I'm confident. Had heard some Agusa before too and liked it.


I don't always have the time to be a collaborator. I jumped in on this as I had taken some time off from work without going anywhere. Until then, I hadn't posted here for a few weeks.

Goat's tribal psych sound has appealed to me from the first time I have heard them. They are among the first "new" bands I learned about when I started reading PA forums 10 years ago. Their albums don't have many ratings but someone had written convincingly enough in a forum post that I listened to their debut album World Music. I streamed them through my Amazon account and that lead to my personal exploration and discovery of current psychedelic music artists.

Edited by mathman0806 - December 03 2023 at 18:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 19:49
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

^I interpreted Greg's comment to mean that he was thinking he made a mistake in asking for non-collaborators to participate because of lack of response.
It's only been two days since this thread was posted. I wouldn't say that is a lack of response. I interpreted Greg's comment differently. It's nice you stand up for him, but I would like him to explain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 21:25
^ Will, Traditionally the PA albums of the year has just been for collabs (aka, 4 and 5 star people plus VIP titled people). For years I have wanted this open to all members for greater input and collaboration from all who wish to take part. We have had lower turnout and I suggested that we open this up to our general community. Others agreed, which led to this topic. I don't regret it, but I was feeling rather insecure about this before George's list. Things got off to a bit of a rocky start, and insecure me was worried that this would not be received well. I was sad about the timing with your thread. Of course I did not know you would be making a topic. I wasn't thinking I made a mistake, more that I had been concerned that this might not be as well accepted or appreciated as I had hoped by the general community and those people whom I interact with at the forum. Just some poorly expressed casual banter from me. Sorry for not being clear.

One should be able to see the people who voted at Mike's site, I think. I was not planning to be the one to post the results. EDIT: and in this thread which is the thread for people to post their list. I would not expect the numbers of collabs and non-collabs to be posted in the results thread, but those who are interested can see who contributed from this thread and Mike's chart. It's important to me that it is a group effort and I would rather it not matter if one is a collab or not for participation. It's about the PA community coming together to do this.

The more people who participate, the more I would like it. Of course it's early days and I would not expect a lot of lists yet. I would not expect my list to be finalised before some time into January, and I;m sure some would rather wait

Edited by Logan - December 03 2023 at 22:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 23:59
^ I can and will tweak the chart in the coming days and weeks, I will of course add these statistics. Finally all the data will be exported and posted in a forum thread, just like with the previous polls, so that nobody needs to go to AP to see the results.

Specifically, I can of course determine who is a collab and who is not, and I'll be able to compile participant lists. We could also have separate charts (e.g. non-collabs, collabs and combined), which would be interesting. Some prog magazines do similar things (e.g. a readers chart and an editors chart). 


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 03 2023 at 23:59
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