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Early 90's Technical Death Metal Showdown
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    Posted: January 11 2024 at 01:56
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ To me death metal is not just defined by the vocals. I'm a musician, and when I listen to Focus, there's just too much that's really different from the typical death metal style. 

When I listen to Focus, I sometimes hear yodeling.


Tech/Extreme Death Yodeling.

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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ To me death metal is not just defined by the vocals. I'm a musician, and when I listen to Focus, there's just too much that's really different from the typical death metal style. 
When I listen to Focus, I sometimes hear yodeling.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ It's how the release is listed here, btw.. Doesn't say Tech/Prog Death Metal, but Tech/Prog Extreme Metal. Of course that's because of the crude genre system here, but the point is that it is NOT WRONG. I can call a square a rectangle, and of course you could argue that it is doing injustice to the square ... it could scream "I'm a special rectangle, my sides are all of the same length!", to which I would say "sure, but you are ALSO a rectangle".

The tech/extreme prog metal is fine with the debut, not correct anymore with the rest of their following albums. 
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^ It's how the release is listed here, btw.. Doesn't say Tech/Prog Death Metal, but Tech/Prog Extreme Metal. Of course that's because of the crude genre system here, but the point is that it is NOT WRONG. I can call a square a rectangle, and of course you could argue that it is doing injustice to the square ... it could scream "I'm a special rectangle, my sides are all of the same length!", to which I would say "sure, but you are ALSO a rectangle".
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Sure, you never said that it's typical death metal, and I didn't say you did. I just said that FOR ME there is sufficient difference that I'd rather just assign the more generic term "extreme metal".

Now, are you going to insist that I cease doing so?

I wasn't insisting you cease doing anything, I just think your description/tag does not do justice to that album. Smile
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^ Sure, you never said that it's typical death metal, and I didn't say you did. I just said that FOR ME there is sufficient difference that I'd rather just assign the more generic term "extreme metal".

Now, are you going to insist that I cease doing so?
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ To me death metal is not just defined by the vocals. I'm a musician, and when I listen to Focus, there's just too much that's really different from the typical death metal style. 

I never said it's typical death metal, but technical and progressive one. 

Obviously not just defined by the vocals, but that specific kind of vocals is front and center. That's why the "death" component is specified in genre tags (like death-doom or example, with that tag, listeners know what to expect). 
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^ To me death metal is not just defined by the vocals. I'm a musician, and when I listen to Focus, there's just too much that's really different from the typical death metal style. 
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Yup, to me it's more complex. Not everything with a saxophone is Jazz either (but much). LOL

it's not the same, growling is a very specific characteristic of the death metal genre. 
Saxophone can be used in any genre, obviously. 
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^ Yup, to me it's more complex. Not everything with a saxophone is Jazz either (but much). LOL
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I really think we DISAGREE on the question of "how death" the Cynic debut is, and we're not going to resolve that here. You pointed that on most websites it is classified as death metal, which I acknowledged. On my website there's now "extreme metal" as its own subgenre of metal, and that is not available on these other websites, afaik. In any case, I stand by my OPINION that the broader term "extreme metal" fits better, and I accept and respect your differing opinion.

What else can we do? It's either a duel with pistols, or shake hands and move on Smile

No site I mentioned classifies them as just "death metal", even the death metal has become a genre with subgenres. LOL 

To me things are simple, if it's got growls its in the death metal umbrella. 
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^ I really think we DISAGREE on the question of "how death" the Cynic debut is, and we're not going to resolve that here. You pointed that on most websites it is classified as death metal, which I acknowledged. On my website there's now "extreme metal" as its own subgenre of metal, and that is not available on these other websites, afaik. In any case, I stand by my OPINION that the broader term "extreme metal" fits better, and I accept and respect your differing opinion.

What else can we do? It's either a duel with pistols, or shake hands and move on Smile
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Let's agree to disagree. Smile

That's what people say when they want to get rid of someone or stop discussing. LOL
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Sure, there's nothing wrong with classifying them as death metal, especially when you look at it from a historical perspective - after all, they started as part of the Florida death metal scene. I just think that their music had already moved away from the typical death metal style significantly, so that I think that the more generic label "extreme metal" is a better fit. 

Extreme metal does less justice to Cynic's debut than technical death metal or progressive death metal (both are more specific unlike the broad extreme metal). 
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^ Sure, there's nothing wrong with classifying them as death metal, especially when you look at it from a historical perspective - after all, they started as part of the Florida death metal scene. I just think that their music had already moved away from the typical death metal style significantly, so that I think that the more generic label "extreme metal" is a better fit. 

Let's agree to disagree. Smile
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Like Cynic - Focus, which isn’t really Death Metal.

How is not death metal when it's got extreme growling vocals?!

Metalstorm classifies the album as progressive death metal. 
MMA as technical death metal
Metal archives as Progressive Death Metal/Fusion

All o them are right if you ask me. Smile
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^ Like Cynic - Focus, which isn’t really Death Metal.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ So what's wrong with assigning this more general genre to releases that can't really be attributed to a specific subgenre?

like what?! Confused
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^ Cool, and "extremely extreme progressive metal" has an epically excessive ring to it. :)
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^ It's still there in the background, I might introduce a user setting to reactivate it. Wink

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - January 10 2024 at 13:46
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