Prog Definition

HackettFan wrote: tamijo wrote: HackettFan wrote: (e.g. Combining jazz and rock was innovative at one time in history, but it no longer is).   Depends..i would say if you combine a more resent Rock (say Trash Metal) with Jazz (say Hawkins style Sax) would still be very innovative, at least i cant remember anything close to that. I completely agree, but you've redefined the rock category to be trash metal, so it's different.

tamijo wrote: HackettFan wrote: tamijo wrote: HackettFan wrote: (e.g. Combining jazz and rock was innovative at one time in history, but it no longer is).   Depends..i would say if you combine a more resent Rock (say Trash Metal) with Jazz (say Hawkins style Sax) would still be very innovative, at least i cant remember anything close to that. I completely agree, but you've redefined the rock category to be trash metal, so it's different.   Offcourse its diffrent, every time you listen to new music, its diffrent. But Metal is Rock, mixed with Jazz, chances are, it would be possible to put in JRF. Would depend a lot on the mix of things.

The issue is whether the differences are innovative. When I used the word 'different' I meant that it's a different situation categorically. If you are conflating Trash Metal and Rock, why are you bothering to identify a batch of music under the heading of Trash Metal? I presumed you were using it to create a distinction and justify how a new category within rock could be used to create an innovative new fusion type. True, Trash Metal has its roots in Rock, but Rock and Jazz both have common roots in the Blues. The categories of music adjust over time, and what counts as an innovation is historically grounded. I continue you to see no problem with my claim here. Soft Machine did not combine Jazz and Trash Metal, because there was no Trash Metal back then. I think we can agree on that for sure. Even if we talk about innovations of technique, Steve Hackett was incredibly innovative at the time when he came up with two handed tapping. Everyone does it now, so it is difficult to call it innovative any longer.

A band that strives for originality in tonal tendency, character of sound, rhythm, time, and blend.

Can't put a finger on it, but that's what I look for.