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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20525 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 10:12
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I just broke down and ordered "Union Chapel". I've put it off for too long. Perhaps I needed a break from the group after Michael Dunford passed away.

Thumbs Up  Hope you will enjoy it.
Your review of the DVD convinced me, Roger. I know that it will be great!
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Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 21:35
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I just broke down and ordered "Union Chapel". I've put it off for too long. Perhaps I needed a break from the group after Michael Dunford passed away.

Thumbs Up  Hope you will enjoy it.
Your review of the DVD convinced me, Roger. I know that it will be great!

Glad to help.Smile
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Just got the "Union Hall" DVD yesterday. Another winner! And you're right Roger, the  new guitarist does play Northern Lights differently than the late Micky Dunford! Smile

Edited by SteveG - March 11 2017 at 10:35
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2017 at 18:22
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Just got the "Union Hall" DVD yesterday. Another winner! And you're right Roger, the  new guitarist does play Northern Lights differently than the late Micky Dunford! Smile

Yeah, Lambert plays a somewhat simplified version of the riff.   There are other such minor adjustments they have made.  Not complaining, because the final product is still great.  There's always the B&W Song of Scheherazade DVD for those who want to see full blooded, young Renaissance at their best.  The Sight & Sound concert is also out on DVD now but very expensive because they are offering that video plus audio for all of Ren's BBC appearances in one package.
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Points: 8869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2017 at 22:07
one area where guitarist Mark Lambert really excels is in his backing vocals which seem stronger than what the group had in their heyday.  But he also played a cracking lead guitar solo in Ashes the last time I saw them, which was a surprise!
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

one area where guitarist Mark Lambert really excels is in his backing vocals which seem stronger than what the group had in their heyday.  But he also played a cracking lead guitar solo in Ashes the last time I saw them, which was a surprise!

I think perhaps the late Michael Dunford was not very comfortable with/didn't like electric guitar.  He had mentioned something to that effect in an interview IIRC.  

By the way, Ken, you have seen the band before and after Dunford's demise?  Is it just my impression or has Annie grown a little serious on stage post Dunford's demise?  Not dead serious but at least in the Union Chapel DVD (and other vids I have seen on youtube from the time), she seems to be more formal and there's less of the childlike prancing around of old.  Could also be her back, for all I know. Cry
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Points: 8869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2017 at 08:21
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

one area where guitarist Mark Lambert really excels is in his backing vocals which seem stronger than what the group had in their heyday.  But he also played a cracking lead guitar solo in Ashes the last time I saw them, which was a surprise!

I think perhaps the late Michael Dunford was not very comfortable with/didn't like electric guitar.  He had mentioned something to that effect in an interview IIRC.  

By the way, Ken, you have seen the band before and after Dunford's demise?  Is it just my impression or has Annie grown a little serious on stage post Dunford's demise?  Not dead serious but at least in the Union Chapel DVD (and other vids I have seen on youtube from the time), she seems to be more formal and there's less of the childlike prancing around of old.  Could also be her back, for all I know. Cry

Hmm I'm not sure.  When I saw them in 1977 my recollection was that she was pretty serious.  But there is also every indication the whole night was an off night for them.  In 1982 I remember them being less serious and more fun.  Then I saw them a couple of times shortly before Dunford passed and then a couple after.  TBH my memory is fuzzy about the first 2, other than one of them they were just an opening act.  In the last two their has certainly been some lightness but perhaps more seriousness.  She definitely doesn't bop around a lot on the stage though!
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:



Hmm I'm not sure.  When I saw them in 1977 my recollection was that she was pretty serious.  But there is also every indication the whole night was an off night for them.  In 1982 I remember them being less serious and more fun.  Then I saw them a couple of times shortly before Dunford passed and then a couple after.  TBH my memory is fuzzy about the first 2, other than one of them they were just an opening act.  In the last two their has certainly been some lightness but perhaps more seriousness.  She definitely doesn't bop around a lot on the stage though!
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, she will go into a shell if things aren't going well, which is understandable.  But lately, even in shows where she is in fine voice and the band is doing well too, she seems, well, definitely bright and cheerful but not much of her old wit in evidence.
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Points: 20525 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2017 at 04:42
I found Annie to be quite serious and focused on the recent Turn Of The Cards/Scheherazade DVD/CD concert and it came off quite well. One of my favs, btw.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2017 at 08:14
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I found Annie to be quite serious and focused on the recent Turn Of The Cards/Scheherazade DVD/CD concert and it came off quite well. One of my favs, btw.

She did do that bit of banter with the crowd just before Mystic and the Muse.  It occurred to met that maybe she's just trying to avoid that famous high pitched giggle of hers.  At her age, she has to take extra care of her voice, as strong as it may be. 
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2017 at 01:18
Just to reiterate - I really dig Camera Camera.
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Points: 8869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2017 at 20:37
Camera Camera was the comeback album for Renaissance, showing that they could in fact move with the times while still retain some of their strengths  I was in college and succeeded in turning a few friends onto Renaissance in time for their concert appearance in Ottawa.  The local FM station gave them a lot of support.  Somehow it was not to be, and they are remembered as trying to sell out and failing.  I was thinking about this - it's funny how if a band succeeds commercially it's somehow ok, but if they try and fail they are ridiculed.  A lot of it is just luck and promotion or lack thereof. 
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2017 at 20:41
Time-Line was also a decent offering, though not as special as Camera Camera.
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Points: 8869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2017 at 21:08
agreed.  I think they had the right idea with Time Line, but the songs are weaker.  A lot of then start off good but don't develop.  A big exception is the opening number "Flight", which is absolutely superb
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2017 at 22:01
^ Flight - yes indeed !! Classic, right there. If only the entire album was of that quality.
And I concur - the songs often start out promising, but fizzle out into average fare - still, Jon Camp's bass playing saves the day in most cases. Richard The IX is unbelievably cheeze-pop, especially the 'wah-wah wah-oooh' chorus backing. Possibly the weakest moment for the band IMO.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Camera Camera was the comeback album for Renaissance, showing that they could in fact move with the times while still retain some of their strengths  I was in college and succeeded in turning a few friends onto Renaissance in time for their concert appearance in Ottawa.  The local FM station gave them a lot of support.  Somehow it was not to be, and they are remembered as trying to sell out and failing.  I was thinking about this - it's funny how if a band succeeds commercially it's somehow ok, but if they try and fail they are ridiculed.  A lot of it is just luck and promotion or lack thereof. 





At least progarchives is pretty indiscriminate on this aspect.  Anything that smells like pop will get trashed (see 80s Genesis).  My own complaint with Camera Camera is it's kind of all over the place. I think Dunford wanted to maintain a progressive approach while embracing 80s sounds and a more irreverent flavour while Camp went all out 80s.  So I like Okichi San and the title track but Running Away from You is just too pop for me.  Unfortunately, they titled much more towards the latter style on Timeline.  I also love the melody of Remember but can't abide by the keyboards.  That's something that's hard to relate for people like me who did not spend their teen/adolescent years in the 80s.  I can't assimilate those keyboard sounds no matter what.  I do like a lot of 80s albums but they are mostly the ones which didn't go for the synth pop sound.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2017 at 23:17
^ That's a fair call.
However, the music on Camera Camera is anything but simplistic. Still has 'Prog' written all over it, even if dressed up in 80's colours. I don't mind the synths. Tyrant-Tula has a definite nod to their 70's stylings. And Okichi-San, I regard, is up there with Mother Russia etc. etc.    (Why Mother Russia ? - it's my absolute, top favourite track from Renaissance, Turn Of The Cards being my 6-out-of-5 album).
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ That's a fair call.
However, the music on Camera Camera is anything but simplistic. Still has 'Prog' written all over it, even if dressed up in 80's colours. I don't mind the synths. Tyrant-Tula has a definite nod to their 70's stylings. And Okichi-San, I regard, is up there with Mother Russia etc. etc.    (Why Mother Russia ? - it's my absolute, top favourite track from Renaissance, Turn Of The Cards being my 6-out-of-5 album).

I didn't mean that it's all pop, rather that it has a strong synth pop influence which doesn't agree with me.  As I said, maybe if I had grown up on that music, I would have a different view. Barring a few exceptions like Kate Bush or Prefab Sprout, most of the 80s rock/pop music I like is guitar oriented.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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^ Cool !! I dig Kajagoogoo - synth-pop with amazing musicianship (yes, particularly Nick Beggs on bass) but really colourful and detailed music. Not a far cry from Camera Camera Renaissance. I'm not too picky on exclusive-to-the-era sounds, fashions and so forth. All time frames offer their quirks.
A brief overview on my tastes :
SADE - Diamond Life
JAPAN - Gentlemen Take Polaroids
KING CRIMSON - Discipline
RENAISSANCE - Camera Camera
HAWKWIND - The Chronicle Of The Black Sword (even better, Live Chronicles)
OZRIC TENTACLES - Pungent Effulgent
MARILLION - Fugazi
TWELFTH NIGHT - Fact And Fiction
I.Q. - Tales From The Lush Attic
KAJAGOOGOO - Islands
ANTHRAX - Among The Living
SHUB NIGGURATH - Les Morts Vont Vite
IRON MAIDEN - Somewhere In Time
RUSH - Moving Pictures
YES - Drama
............to name a few of 80's awesomeness.
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