The Open-Minded Music Fans Club

I do not see how someone liking "Prog" music warrants snobbery? Does it take some kind of special person to say you like something. Oh, you listen to music quite the accomplishment.

If two people were standing in the street, one listens to "Prog" the other to "Rap", do you honestly think that one is superior to the other because of preference. Oops the "Rap" guy just mentioned Yes, that blows your theory. I like Country Western, oh you are better than me; wait now I like "Prog" and suddenly you are not.

Also I may like Progressive Rock, but I can see it is not the most accomplished genre. It is Jack of all trades, master of none genre.

1. Compared to many non-popular genres "Prog" is very simplistic and lacks compositional quality and fundamental music theory.

2. "Prog" does not hold its own on the song-writing end either. "Prog" looses heavily to other forms of popular music in almost every avenue of song-craft. Admittedly "Prog" is popular music so it uses the same hooks and catches as say Billy Joel, but you compare the end product (which might not be why you listen to "Prog") Billy Joel by a songwriters mile.

3. Lyrics are usually either good or really bad in "Prog", but even so it gets clobbered by the quality of lyrics of most modern Folk music. Bob Dylan or Jon Anderson, who deserves to be more celebrated as a lyricist? Even the more poppy stuff like Bernie Taupin, or the great Country lyricists. While Yes, Jethro tull and the so called progressive movement was going on, lyrically they paled in comparison to the progressive introspection of John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band or the life mirroring descriptions of Paul Simon.

Bottom-line: I like "Prog" but I am not naive enough to think that it does not get its but kicked intellectually and musically by other genres of music. I would say that 95% of the marketed audience of "Prog" have no musical training and are of average IQ, just like other forms of popular music. What "Prog" seems to excel at (in comparison to other "Popular music" genres) is equally matched by what it lacks. "Prog" snobbery is a pathetic way to try to elevate yourself above others. It has no basis in fact or quality.

By the way (to fit the topic) I am a big fan of OMD and New Order, and have been for years

Someone's heard of Rites of Spring and I don't know them personally! I love loads of Dischord label bands (Fugazi isn't just a Marillion album!).

Prog-rock is quickly falling out of my top genre list since I can't find anything I like outside of the big names from the 70's (Genesis, Pink Floyd, Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf Generator, etc.).

Indie rock is my favorite genre of all-time, followed by post-rock, shoegaze and black metal. Outside of those I also like New Age, post-metal, doom metal, funeral doom metal, avant-garde, classical, jazz fusion, emo (Sunny Day Real Estate, Mineral, The Appleseed Cast, etc.),  and some pop.

I love metal, hard rock, classic rock, I have some rap, even some pop, new age.... emo just scares me away... Jazz I have a little and I have a lot lot of classical music (almost as much as prog)

Where's alt rock or grunge?

I can have some dosis from Coldplay, Audioslave, Pearl Jam, Blind Melon, Simply Red, Inxs, RHCP, Ram Jam, Ac/Dc, etc

reality wrote: I do not see how someone liking "Prog" music warrants snobbery? Does it take some kind of special person to say you like something. Oh, you listen to music quite the accomplishment. You're right. But the thread was about liking some other genres, not about discussing why people who like prog are snobs.. If two people were standing in the street, one listens to "Prog" the other to "Rap", do you honestly think that one is superior to the other because of preference. No Oops the "Rap" guy just mentioned Yes, that blows your theory. I like Country Western, oh you are better than me; wait now I like "Prog" and suddenly you are not. No. You're right. Also I may like Progressive Rock, but I can see it is not the most accomplished genre. It is Jack of all trades, master of none genre. Not the point of this thread. 1. Compared to many non-popular genres "Prog" is very simplistic and lacks compositional quality and fundamental music theory. Not the point of this thread. You're just bashing prog. 2. "Prog" does not hold its own on the song-writing end either. "Prog" looses heavily to other forms of popular music in almost every avenue of song-craft. Admittedly "Prog" is popular music so it uses the same hooks and catches as say Billy Joel, but you compare the end product (which might not be why you listen to "Prog") Billy Joel by a songwriters mile. This is highly subjective. As accesibility and catchiness goes, you're right. But the concept of "which song is better as a song" is highly subjective. You can't PROVE that a billy joel song is better as a song than a prog song. You may prove that it's more catchy and commercial, but not that is BETTER. And I think Joel is a gufted songwriter by the way, actuyally a very talented melodist. 3. Lyrics are usually either good or really bad in "Prog", but even so it gets clobbered by the quality of lyrics of most modern Folk music. Folk music WAS NOT on the original post on this thread, but genres as rap, emo, indie, etc. Bob Dylan or Jon Anderson, who deserves to be more celebrated as a lyricist? I agree with you in that Jon Anderson sucks, but who can't say that there's nobody who honestly prefers his nonsense to Dylan's short and over simplistic "poetry"? And Anderson is but ONE case. I'll put Gabriel or Fish over "poet" Dylan every time. Even the more poppy stuff like Bernie Taupin, or the great Country lyricists. While Yes, Jethro tull and the so called progressive movement was going on, lyrically they paled in comparison to the progressive introspection of John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band or the life mirroring descriptions of Paul Simon. Please explian me in literary, really scholarly way how you have come to this conclusion. And then, even if you do, prove me WHY THAT"S TRUE. Again, that many people herald them as the second coming of Shalkespeare doesn't mean either Lennon or Simon actually are that, or that they are better than some of prog names.   Bottom-line: I like "Prog" but I am not naive enough to think that it does not get its but kicked intellectually and musically by other genres of music. Damn! I'm naive! But mostly, I'm in a PROG website, defending prog! How more naive can I get? By the way, I think it's DIFFERENT than other genres. Classical is more complex, more academic, I love it as much (and I have heard 982730 classical music works) Maybe even better. So what? Why is it better"? And if it is, THAT WAS NOT the [point of the thread. I would say that 95% of the marketed audience of "Prog" have no musical training and are of average IQ, In that we may agree, although maybe more than 5% have some musical training, and much much more than your average hip-hop fan. Or maybe not. How can I know? How can you? just like other forms of popular music. We agree man! But why do we have to attack prog in the process! What "Prog" seems to excel at (in comparison to other "Popular music" genres) is equally matched by what it lacks. "Prog" snobbery is a pathetic way to try to elevate yourself above others. It has no basis in fact or quality. It has basis in psychological reasons. Ego. Self-steem. People who have low self-steem will grab whatever they can to feel superior to others. Or people whith inflated egos who don't have real reasons for that. I don't think people who act that way are like that because of musical reasons. They use music to justify other issues. In the end, who really can see himself as superior only because of the music he/she listens to? By the way (to fit the topic) I am a big fan of OMD and New Order, and have been for years[At least you recognize your whole reply was off topic. I just reply to your post because it seems to me you attack prog in a thread that was not about attacking prog but about defending othger genres. Anyway, I hope you see my point. I respect your opinion. I just think attacking prog in a thread like this (and in this forum) is quite out of place.

Edited by The T - April 06 2008 at 02:01

Peter Gabriel's lyrics are nonsense?!? What? Sure, he may sound crazy and he does act crazy (especially in concerts), but if you take a closer look at his lyrics, you'll see some pretty good stuff, especially on albums like The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, where he tackles topics like consumerism, insanity and the sexual revolution (to name a few). Sure, his lyrics aren't on par with someone like Roger Waters or David Gilmour from Pink Floyd, (who were arguably the best lyricists not only in the prog realm, but in rock music as a whole), but it's far away from nonsense. 

To answer Salvo's question, I listen to prog for the music, mostly. Complexity in music has always captured my attention, and that's what prog's main ingredient is. However, I do love the lyrics from Pink Floyd and Rush, who are probably the best lyricists in the prog genre.

Figures that this degenerates into prog-bashing, anti prog-bashing bashing, and unrelated arguments...

Let's stop talking about Prog because this is a non-Prog thread in the non-Prog section. kthxbye

inpraiseoffolly wrote: While on hiatus from using the PA forums, I watched with disgust at some of the apalling progsnobbery present here.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 06 2008 at 12:41