TFTO vs TLLDOB: excess vs excess

febus wrote: What's wrong with TFTO??? are we on a prog site here or is it the hillbillies? ''The Revealing Science..'' is as good , as majestic as any other great YESepic, the same goes for ''Ritual''. ''The Remembering'' has very nice moments, but sure could have been shortened, ''The Ancient'' is more of an acquired taste, but at least YES showed they could outside of their comfort zone and be adventurous. So long live TFTO!!   About ''The lost Lamb....'''  never got into it back then in 74, tried hard many times, recently again with the CD version........No, nope, nada, closed, a hermetic wall between me and the lamb, can't go through and Gabriel vocals REALLY annoys my poor ears! Sorry!

I really like The Lamb, too, but otherwise I agree, so long live TFTO.

crimhead wrote: I'm in the minority on this one. I love Lamb and for me at times it is not long enough. I wish that I had the sense in my younger days than to have seen Genesis when they toured for Lamb. That is my loss. I only got to see the Philesis version of the band and Peter in his solo glory.

I always feel that Supper's Ready isn't long enough, that's surely because the very notable divided sections(parts), and it makes the song feel shorter or at least go faster

I got sunshine in my stomach !

Tales is Yes' finest moment, not "boring" in the least.

YES issue 80 minutes of stellar prog, stretching their own already vast vision even further, and get criticised for it. I can understand 'music critics' being critical - after all, their job depends on being able to apprehend an album on first listen - but why on earth would prog rock fans use the word 'excess' to describe the album? Forgive me for being coarse, but it's kind of like a patient asking his doctor to reduce the length of his orgasms. 'I'm having too much fun, doc. Can you knock it back a bit?'

Funny thing, 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' being blamed in some quarters for the decline of prog. Collins-era GENESIS get blamed for the same thing. 'Tales' is more complex, 'A Trick of the Tail' is less. So what was it? Did we get too complex or too simple? Or was it neither? (Having 'tail/tale in the title, perhaps?)

I vote we stop listening to the critics and start listening to the music.

Edited by russellk - August 03 2008 at 16:52

Henry Plainview wrote: febus wrote: What's wrong with TFTO??? are we on a prog site here or is it the hillbillies? I know this may shock and disturb you, but not all prog fans like Yes! And that doesn't make them hillbillies!

I take your point, but I don't know that it has anything to do with 'like' or 'dislike'. I rather think people can tell if something is excessive or not regardless of whether they like it. Unless, of course, we simply consider 'more of what we don't like' as excessive.


Edited by russellk - August 03 2008 at 17:03

russellk wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: febus wrote: What's wrong with TFTO??? are we on a prog site here or is it the hillbillies? I know this may shock and disturb you, but not all prog fans like Yes! And that doesn't make them hillbillies! I take your point, but I don't know that it has anything to do with 'like' or 'dislike'. I rather think people can tell if something is excessive or not regardless of whether they like it. Unless, of course, we simply consider 'more of what we don't like' as excessive.

The T wrote: russellk wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: febus wrote: What's wrong with TFTO??? are we on a prog site here or is it the hillbillies? I know this may shock and disturb you, but not all prog fans like Yes! And that doesn't make them hillbillies! I take your point, but I don't know that it has anything to do with 'like' or 'dislike'. I rather think people can tell if something is excessive or not regardless of whether they like it. Unless, of course, we simply consider 'more of what we don't like' as excessive.   Basically, maybe I picked the wrong word... Or maybe not. The thing is, reading your points literally, prog was only about length... So, if we have a good 18 minute song, why don't we prefer a 22? Or, if we have one album with 40 minutes of prog, why don't we prefer double that?   In the end, my point, which can be reflected in the review I just wrote of TFTO, is that both albums are a little "excessive" not because they're long but for actual artistic reasons... Both have obscure concepts (Genesis' at least sounds coherent.. YES' sounds like.... words....), both are IMO too-long... and my biggest complaint about YES' TFTO is that is just plain boring and bad.

If I implied prog was only (or even primarily) about length, I apologise. But length is implicit in most of the criticism of TFTO: things aren't usually boring, for example, if they're short. I'm arguing that things aren't automatically boring if they're long. Like you - and Pnoom! - I think it's about the quality of the music. And You And I differ on that, which I respect.

As has been said, there are a few polls like this at the moment. In fact, I posted one of them!!

It's a really tough one, as I think both are brilliant studio albums. I don't find either too long. It's a toss of a coin for me. I vote The Lamb this time, but it could be Tales if I am asked next week, it's that close.