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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 11:36
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL You're not wrong there Steve LOL
 
 
One day people will wake up and smell the starbucks.
I growed up in that legendary Marshal Tito's self-management socialism ( where, for example, the communist party was giving all support to the progrock bands to make their music almost 100% free of "market claims" ), and I'v been learned about all these things in school.
Then you should be able to recognise how wrong you are. There is nothing remotely lefty/socialist about the internet or anything on it, and that includes Bandcamp. It is not an egalitarian and nor is an Untopian idyll, once commerce gets involved all idealism evaporates, the popular artists get more popular at the expense of the lesser know and also-rans, this is as inevitable as the sun rising every morning and setting every evening. Even in the brief history of the Internet we can predict this will happen because there isn't a single enterprise or endeavour that has been launched onto the world wide web that hasn't followed this path. Because the internet (and all that is in it) is a global phenomenon it means that single powerful "clusters" rapidly dominate, so control of that cluster reduces to the few rather than the many. Bandcamp is a prime example of that, there is only one prefered music hosting site - ReverbNation and SoundCloud have lost the race, (see here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91557 ), Napster, mp3.com and all the other "one-clicks" are no where to be seen - that is not the result of communism or socialism or left-wing ideology, that is survival of the fitest, that is "only one can survive".
Actually, that is related to dialectical materialism. A contradictions in music industry itself made it.
 
EDIT: Don't make a wrong connection between "Untopian idyll" and Marxism' strand of Dialectical materialism. There's not any idealism in Dialectial meterialism because the theory is based on cycling of the historical necessity.
Of course, a lot of idealism you can find in a communist's point of view, but you can not find a drop of that in Dialectic materialism where a human being is regarding as an economic unit as well. And that's why the theory is great  - and approved.


There's this great Danish book called Erasmus Montanus by Ludvig Holberg you'd probably dig big time. It's about a young man who goes to college and manages to get everything wrong. One of the things he does when he returns to his homestead is to prove that his mother is a stone. " A stone cannot fly. Mother cannot fly. Ergo Mother is a stone."


Edited by Guldbamsen - November 14 2013 at 11:37
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Points: 29625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2013 at 11:27
Band Camp (bandcamp) {band camp}
 
I dunno, I recently signed up to download Knifeworld's latest and I voluntarily paid them for the FLAC, although you can download it for free, in order to support them for the upcoming album. Big smile


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 14 2013 at 11:32
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 13:12
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL You're not wrong there Steve LOL
 
 
One day people will wake up and smell the starbucks.
I growed up in that legendary Marshal Tito's self-management socialism ( where, for example, the communist party was giving all support to the progrock bands to make their music almost 100% free of "market claims" ), and I'v been learned about all these things in school.
Then you should be able to recognise how wrong you are. There is nothing remotely lefty/socialist about the internet or anything on it, and that includes Bandcamp. It is not an egalitarian and nor is an Untopian idyll, once commerce gets involved all idealism evaporates, the popular artists get more popular at the expense of the lesser know and also-rans, this is as inevitable as the sun rising every morning and setting every evening. Even in the brief history of the Internet we can predict this will happen because there isn't a single enterprise or endeavour that has been launched onto the world wide web that hasn't followed this path. Because the internet (and all that is in it) is a global phenomenon it means that single powerful "clusters" rapidly dominate, so control of that cluster reduces to the few rather than the many. Bandcamp is a prime example of that, there is only one prefered music hosting site - ReverbNation and SoundCloud have lost the race, (see here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91557 ), Napster, mp3.com and all the other "one-clicks" are no where to be seen - that is not the result of communism or socialism or left-wing ideology, that is survival of the fitest, that is "only one can survive".
Actually, that is related to dialectical materialism. A contradictions in music industry itself made it.
 
EDIT: Don't make a wrong connection between "Untopian idyll" and Marxism' strand of Dialectical materialism. There's not any idealism in Dialectial meterialism because the theory is based on cycling of the historical necessity.
Of course, a lot of idealism you can find in a communist's point of view, but you can not find a drop of that in Dialectic materialism where a human being is regarding as an economic unit as well. And that's why the theory is great  - and approved.

Edited by Svetonio - November 14 2013 at 00:11
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 13:00
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL You're not wrong there Steve LOL
 
 
One day people will wake up and smell the starbucks.
I growed up in that legendary Marshal Tito's self-management socialism ( where, for example, the communist party was giving all support to the progrock bands to make their music almost 100% free of "market claims" ), and I'v been learned about all these things in school.
Then you should be able to recognise how wrong you are. There is nothing remotely lefty/socialist about the internet or anything on it, and that includes Bandcamp. It is not an egalitarian and nor is an Untopian idyll, once commerce gets involved all idealism evaporates, the popular artists get more popular at the expense of the lesser know and also-rans, this is as inevitable as the sun rising every morning and setting every evening. Even in the brief history of the Internet we can predict this will happen because there isn't a single enterprise or endeavour that has been launched onto the world wide web that hasn't followed this path. Because the internet (and all that is in it) is a global phenomenon it means that single powerful "clusters" rapidly dominate, so control of that cluster reduces to the few rather than the many. Bandcamp is a prime example of that, there is only one prefered music hosting site - ReverbNation and SoundCloud have lost the race, (see here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91557 ), Napster, mp3.com and all the other "one-clicks" are no where to be seen - that is not the result of communism or socialism or left-wing ideology, that is survival of the fitest, that is "only one can survive".
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 12:47
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 12:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

- an indications for that is, for example, that the millions of people believe that Kardashians are the real people.
 
 
LOL but not Cardassians, Kardashians..as same as the millions also think that the real people are "world leaders" too, and similiar freaks from big media made in the laboratories of neoliberal capitalism - which is actually over and it is in free fall now.


Edited by Svetonio - November 13 2013 at 12:48
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 12:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL You're not wrong there Steve LOL
 
 
One day people will wake up and smell the starbucks.
I growed up in that legendary Marshal Tito's self-management socialism ( where, for example, the communist party was giving all support to the progrock bands to make their music almost 100% free of "market claims" ), and I'v been learned about all these things in school.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 12:23
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

- an indications for that is, for example, that the millions of people believe that Kardashians are the real people.
 
 
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 12:16
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Of course that Bandcamp make a hard cash on their smart way.
Otherwise, the company is gonna be disappeared from the market. But that Idea is a leftist and (or) progressive idea, and that's great.
Bandcamp made that new prog revolution possible. New highway for Progressive Rock - far away from old fashioned records companies bourgeoisie - is open now. That's the essential.
That's not bandcamp, that's the internet in general.
Internet is the ghost from the bottle. And you know that, when that ghost is free, as it is since (effectively) 90s aswell, it have / could take any form. One of its forms is Bandcamp.
Actually, the story about Bandcamp is basicly a sociological story / perspective, so evidently related to approved in the real life and consequently timeless Marxism's strand of [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism ]  Dialectical materialism developed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.
 
 
 

And that most certainly is a load of old boll@@ks
LOL "old boll@@ks" that the millions of young intelectuals around the globe read Marx' Capital right now ?!
In fact, they know that the capitalism is came to the wall. So, they will find way to the new renaissance, or the world will return in barbarism - an indications for that is, for example, that the millions of people believe that Kardashians are the real people.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 11:57
LOL You're not wrong there Steve LOL
 
 
One day people will wake up and smell the starbucks.
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Points: 13362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 11:49
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Of course that Bandcamp make a hard cash on their smart way.
Otherwise, the company is gonna be disappeared from the market. But that Idea is a leftist and (or) progressive idea, and that's great.
Bandcamp made that new prog revolution possible. New highway for Progressive Rock - far away from old fashioned records companies bourgeoisie - is open now. That's the essential.
That's not bandcamp, that's the internet in general.
Internet is the ghost from the bottle. And you know that, when that ghost is free, as it is since (effectively) 90s aswell, it have / could take any form. One of its forms is Bandcamp.
Actually, the story about Bandcamp is basicly a sociological story / perspective, so evidently related to approved in the real life and consequently timeless Marxism's strand of [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism ]  Dialectical materialism developed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.
 
 

And that most certainly is a load of old boll@@ks
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 11:09
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Of course that Bandcamp make a hard cash on their smart way.
Otherwise, the company is gonna be disappeared from the market. But that Idea is a leftist and (or) progressive idea, and that's great.
Bandcamp made that new prog revolution possible. New highway for Progressive Rock - far away from old fashioned records companies bourgeoisie - is open now. That's the essential.
That's not bandcamp, that's the internet in general.
Internet is the ghost from the bottle. And you know that, when that ghost is free, as it is since (effectively) 90s aswell, it have / could take any form. One of its forms is Bandcamp.
Actually, the story about Bandcamp is basicly a sociological story / phenomenon / perspective, so evidently related to approved in the real life and consequently timeless Marxism's strand of [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism ]  Dialectical materialism developed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.
 
 
 
 
 
 
" 1. The determination of the concept out of itself (the thing itself must be concered in its relations and its delvopment)
2. The contradictory nature of the thing (the other of itself), the contradiction forces and tendencies in each phenomenon
3. The union of analysis and synthesis
Such apparantly are the elements of dialectic  "
 
Lenin, Sumary of dialectic
 


Edited by Svetonio - November 13 2013 at 13:16
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Points: 20336 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 10:25
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Of course that Bandcamp make a hard cash on their smart way.
Otherwise, the company is gonna be disappeared from the market. But that Idea is a leftist and (or) progressive idea, and that's great.
Bandcamp made that new prog revolution possible. New highway for Progressive Rock - far away from old fashioned records companies bourgeoisie - is open now. That's the essential.
That's not bandcamp, that's the internet in general.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 09:36
That's bollocks. Wink
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 09:20
Of course that Bandcamp make a hard cash on their smart way.
Otherwise, the company is gonna be disappeared from the market. But that Idea is a leftist and (or) progressive idea, and that's great.
Bandcamp made that new prog revolution possible. New highway for Progressive Rock - far away from old fashioned records companies bourgeoisie - is open now. That's the essential.


Edited by Svetonio - November 13 2013 at 09:20
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 07:46
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

"It means that albums like Tubular Bells and Rubicon would never have paid for those Hatfield & The North, Slapp Happy and Tom Newman albums to be recorded. Genesis would never have survived passed Trespass without Lindisfarne and The Nice selling a tidy few albums to keep the record label going in those lean early years of Genesis. It means that if you can sell you get a bigger cut and if you don't sell it's all your fault."
 
Im afraid most of those albums would not have been able to make any record deals in 2013 anyway.
Things was very diffrent back then, compared to now, bandcamp or no bandcamp.
 
 
I disagree. Rather strongly in fact. Independent specialist labels will always produced that kind of music regardless. Now is no different to then in that respect. Island, Charisma, Cuneiform and Musea were/are specialist labels - they had/have a niche market with a niche product. Nothing has changed, people still want that niche product that they cannot get from the major labels/

The difference in what we have now with bandcamp are all the bands and artist that could never get a record deal then or now. That has nothing to do with what they create or the type of music they make.

We need to get our collective heads out of our collective backsides and stop seeing "record labels" as evil mega-corporations, stop berating the major labels (which quite frankly never concerned us anyway, (except perhaps EMI and Philips for a brief period in history), and we need to stop comparing "our music" with mainstream pop, rock and metal. 
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 07:33
Dean :"It means that albums like Tubular Bells and Rubicon would never have paid for those Hatfield & The North, Slapp Happy and Tom Newman albums to be recorded. Genesis would never have survived passed Trespass without Lindisfarne and The Nice selling a tidy few albums to keep the record label going in those lean early years of Genesis. It means that if you can sell you get a bigger cut and if you don't sell it's all your fault."
 
I totaly agree with the fact that BC is a record label, and they are only in it for the money.
But Im afraid most of those albums, would not have been able to make any record deals in 2013 anyway.
Things was very diffrent back then, compared to now, bandcamp or no bandcamp.
 
What makes bandcamp possible, is the fact, that with todays tech., anyone can make a record, with a resonable sound, within a resonable budget, if you compare to the money, you would have to come up with back in 73, to make an album, with a relatively ok sound.
So today what you need is not (as much) a recording studio, its access to the marked. Back in the day the record compagnies got that via the record shop's and radio, today a lot more is about getting the word out on the net, and getting likes on facebook, getting played a billion times on youtube ect..
So now any band can dream about making a recording, put it on bandcamp/youtube, and get luckey.
Without havin a big record compagny in the back.
Its offcourse only a dream 99,99999% of the time, but the dream may often seem more real, that sending a demo tape to 25 established labels, and hope someone will put it in the machine, and belives its the next big thing.
 
 
 


Edited by tamijo - November 13 2013 at 07:49
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 20336 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 06:48
Bandcamp is just one of many resources for me, it's useful in that you can listen to full tracks. I only tend to buy from bandcamp if I can't get the CD or the CD is significantly more expensive that the download.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2013 at 06:25
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I wish I had the time to respond to this.

I guess I'd like to know how bandcamp compares to labels we know and love here, such as Cuneiform, Altr0ck, and Soleil Zeuhl as far as the better deal for the artist.
That depends upon expectations and what you want from a label. Those labels are narrowband specialists labels, (just like Island, Charisma, Virgin, Harvest, Vertigo, Brain, Deram also fitted that description), you go to them and you know what to expect (to a degree). Bandcamp is broadband non-specialist, it is more like Sony or iTunes, and that's cool too, because you can still find specialist music on the broadband labels, it's just a little more difficult even with cloud tagging.

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:


What draws me to it is the access to high quality downloads, and not really any other considerations.  By this I mean I love the distribution mechanism.
I'm not that bothered. 99.999% of the time I cannot tell the difference between 192kbps mp3 and FLAC (or raw Red-book CD), not just audibly but on some tracks not even electrically (convert wav to mp3 and back again, subtract the two wav's, whatever remains are the "losses" of mp3 conversion). Anything over 160kbps and I'm happy, but then 128kbps isn't exactly horrible, unless you were actually told it was 128Kbps very few people (if any) could honestly tell the difference reliably and repeatably to make it such the big issue that many make it out to be. I am more interested in the music being mixed and mastered to a quality and professionalism that is acceptable to my ears than I am over file-formats, a poorly recorded, over-compressed mix is crap in FLAC and mp3.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2013 at 18:46
I wish I had the time to respond to this.

I guess I'd like to know how bandcamp compares to labels we know and love here, such as Cuneiform, Altr0ck, and Soleil Zeuhl as far as the better deal for the artist.

What draws me to it is the access to high quality downloads, and not really any other considerations.  By this I mean I love the distribution mechanism.

Interesting discussion you've started Dean.
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