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Topic ClosedRock is dead

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 07:02
Simmons cannot tell music from the music business, for which he seems to act as a ventriloquist´s dummy. Maybe he´ll see things a bit better when he puts off his sunglasses.

Edited by someone_else - September 11 2014 at 07:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 07:30
Quote GS: Elvis, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, the Stones, Jimi Hendrix, the numerous classic Motown artists, Madonna, U2, Prince, Pink Floyd... The list goes on. Individuals, all unanimously considered classic, timeless, revolutionary. Now from '84 until today, name some. Just give me a few — artists that, even after their passing, are or will be inescapable. Artists on the same level as the ones I just mentioned. Even if you don't like them, they will be impossible to avoid, or deny, even after they've stopped making music and maybe passed on. In fact, they become bigger when they stop. Name artists that even compare with the ones I just named.

NS: Nirvana?

GS: Nirvana. That's about it. They are the notable exception.


http://i.imgur.com/ZRRgh.gif
What about dogs? What about cats? What about chickens?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 09:29
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

My point is, how mainstream many rock groups formed in the 21st century are anywhere as popular or influential to the genre's evolution as AC/DC or for that matter KISS? I don't think the genre is literally dead, it's just not at anywhere the same forefront of popular music like it used to.
I think it's more that there's a higher concentration of music on the internet as well as other genres on the rise. There's just too much music, and too much access to music for any one band to have prevailing influence. Of course, it still happens plenty. Swans' The Seer, for instance, has had a pretty big influence on music in general in the past couple of years.

Edited by Polymorphia - September 11 2014 at 09:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 09:30
Originally posted by Archeus Archeus wrote:

Quote GS: Elvis, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, the Stones, Jimi Hendrix, the numerous classic Motown artists, Madonna, U2, Prince, Pink Floyd... The list goes on. Individuals, all unanimously considered classic, timeless, revolutionary. Now from '84 until today, name some. Just give me a few — artists that, even after their passing, are or will be inescapable. Artists on the same level as the ones I just mentioned. Even if you don't like them, they will be impossible to avoid, or deny, even after they've stopped making music and maybe passed on. In fact, they become bigger when they stop. Name artists that even compare with the ones I just named.

NS: Nirvana?

GS: Nirvana. That's about it. They are the notable exception.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 10:13
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

My point is, how mainstream many rock groups formed in the 21st century are anywhere as popular or influential to the genre's evolution as AC/DC or for that matter KISS? I don't think the genre is literally dead, it's just not at anywhere the same forefront of popular music like it used to.

I think the noughties marked a turning point in rock and particularly retro rock culture.  This was demonstrated by the interest that the LZ reunion concert attracted.  At some point, old/classic officially became cool and hip.  And this is to the detriment of the development of new bands and new music.  If old, established names easily fill halls, even arenas, promoters would not have to bet on new bands.  This is reducing the prominence of new rock music.  There are still extremely popular bands like Muse.  But it took several albums for Muse to work their way up to the kind of popularity that bands used to attain within the first three-four albums.  Iron Maiden got big after Killers, just their sophomore effort, for instance.  I don't grudge old bands the opportunity to entertain crowds, especially if they can still do it well.  But until there's genuine interest in new music shown by a substantially large audience, it is difficult for the new music to achieve any great degree of influence.  People want to catch up with the music that either their grandpas or fathers used to listen to or, um, the music that they used to listen to before they became dads or grand-dads.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 11:56
Devoting even a single-page thread to comment about something Gene Simmons said is a criminal waste of bandwidth and should be punishable by death by being forced to listen to him talk and watching him on TV 24/7.. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 11:58
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Devoting even a single-page thread to comment about something Gene Simmons said is a criminal waste of bandwidth and should be punishable by death by being forced to listen to him talk and watching him on TV 24/7.. 


Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 12:35
I thought the only reason people listened to gene simmons was because he had a freakishly long tongue and he would snipe-lick your ear if you didn't pay attention to him
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:14
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Of course, it still happens plenty. Swans' The Seer, for instance, has had a pretty big influence on music in general in the past couple of years.


In what kind of universe are Swans anywhere as influential as KISS? Well, maybe in goth/industrial circles...
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:37
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Of course, it still happens plenty. Swans' The Seer, for instance, has had a pretty big influence on music in general in the past couple of years.


In what kind of universe are Swans anywhere as influential as KISS? Well, maybe in goth/industrial circles...
In what kind of universe are KISS even a well-respected band? Maybe we're living in alternate universes here, but Swans have made a pretty big impact (in more than just goth and industrial circles) with The Seer. Not with previous work, mind you. Practically every electronic artist mentions Swans in interviews. They've been quoted by the melodic post-punk band Protomartyr in their newest record. Thor Harris is almost a public figure. Rock bands in my area (I live in a small city in the Deep South, mind you) are listing Swans as an influence. It's only been two years and this is happening. Sure, they don't have as many album sales as KISS. What do you expect? KISS is practically a corporation. But I hardly think of them as genre-redefining or influential in anything but stage antics. Maybe back in the 80s they had some sort of relevance or influence, and perhaps more than Swans do now, but my point was simply that there are still influential albums being made and that have been made in the past decade.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:46
Maybe our different locations are playing me a trick? Here in continental Europe, Swans are a somewhat high-profile cult band but hardly a household name except in alternative subcultural circles. (goths, punks, rivetheads etc)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 13:46
I can't imagine the Swans level being any bigger than the little finger of KISS' influence back in the 70's.  Granted, the Swans are probably more influential on the current generation than KISS is, but you are comparing ants to giants with comparing Swans to KISS.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 14:31
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Maybe our different locations are playing me a trick? Here in continental Europe, Swans are a somewhat high-profile cult band but hardly a household name except in alternative subcultural circles. (goths, punks, rivetheads etc)
That's possible. They're definitely more popular in the US and UK than continental Europe, I imagine. Perhaps I'm overestimating their influence simply because of the people I'm around (few alternative subcultures, but a lot of musicians and avid music listeners, to be sure). And if it helps Joy Division, the Cure, and Sonic Youth are all bands I'd consider influential and probably more wide-reaching chronologically than KISS, but not the most popular universallyand the dichotomy between influential and popular may be where we have our disagreement. But there are definitely still rock albums that have a big influence on music and The Seer is one of them albeit less influential than, say, Revolver (but no one has ever matched the Beatles' influence so that's a moot point). Rock may no longer be a media darling, but it's still alive, still changing, and still a big influence on music outside genre lines.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 14:34
The Cure and Joy Division are definitely more popular than Swans here, and somewhat mainstream. Probably more popular with younger generations than KISS, though their audiences are different enough that I wager it's difficult to tell. I think Sonic Youth are also more popular on their own side of the Atlantic Ocean than here. Interesting how some artists have an easier time crossing America/Europe cultural differences than others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 16:02
The Cure, Joy Division, and Sonic Youth are more popular than Swans here as well, but compared to KISS that difference is miniscule. KISS had their own music-playing toothbrush for crying out loud. But I can't think of KISS being very influential outside of the 80s, and I can't see anyway in which they actually redefined the genre nor did they seem to affect much music outside of rock music. The subject gets a bit complex when you're discussing when these artists were influential, how these artists were influential, how influential these artists were, in what music spheres these artists were influential, and in what musical climate these artists are influential. We probably should have even started with actually defining "genre-redefining." 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2014 at 22:06
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Only thing dead is mediocre cheesy 80s rock like Kiss
 
 
That about sums it up.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2014 at 04:31
I thought KISS were primarly a 1970s band not an 1980s one? I'm not even a fan of theirs, but I'm under the impression they were very important in popularizing the hard rock/heavy metal style of the mid-1970s to a large audience especially in North America.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:35
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Only thing dead is mediocre cheesy 70's rock like Kiss


Fixed for historical accuracy.

Now, if people could focus on the, er, message of Simmons and not his music and his (awful) personality...

Oh, and, by the way, I think Throbbing Gristle or Einstürzende Neubauten had more influence than the Swans (at least, in Europe). Stern Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:42
Gene Simmons is a joke. So were KISS. They were a manufactured band releasing "product" and not "music". File under "entertainment for slow readers". 

However, he's right. Over the last year, I had 5,700 hits on a Bandcamp profile (I would actually class myself as a musician.) About 1300 downloads. I give everything away to charity. So, the model at the time was, if you can't afford it, no problems. If you can afford it, donate what you can, all profits go to charity.

So, 20% hit ratio, not bad. Guess how much was in the pot after 6 months ? $2. Two lousy rotten dollars for writing an entire album which got international radio play. At this point, I gave up. Finally, I wrote a new album, released it, wooo, $18 in an entire week. 

Even if you GIVE away free downloads, only 1 in 5 people who get a download code actually bother to download the files. They'd rather stream the music. All people do now is use internet radio stations like Spotify to stream audio. I remember reading somewhere that one "pop" musician had 30,000 plays and got enough royalties to buy a t shirt.

Listen up, folks, if you think music has gone down the pan over the last 30 years, wait and see what the next 30 are going to be like. If people don't start actually buying music again, there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to learn to play an instrument for you. Hence rock is dead. Music is dead. It was being killed by commercialism but is now being killed by the listening public. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2014 at 10:53
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Only thing dead is mediocre cheesy 70's rock like Kiss


Fixed for historical accuracy.

Now, if people could focus on the, er, message of Simmons and not his music and his (awful) personality...

Oh, and, by the way, I think Throbbing Gristle or Einstürzende Neubauten had more influence than the Swans (at least, in Europe). Stern Smile
Yarp. I'm just talking about The Seer. Not Swans in general. Their earlier work definitely didn't have a ton of impact even though it did have some.
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