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Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2005
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 Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:06 |
I have some old PT albums and In Absenstia. PT is quit nice, but they will not be remembered after 20 years from now.
I don't believe in overrated or underrated. Every band is rated as it is. It is that invisible hand of the economic market which sometimes strechtes over to the field of music opinions. So being rated is subject of the opinions of all people, not only the ones being capable of technically analyse the music, but the less than experts as well.
Since PT is liked by some and disliked by other they cannot be geniusses in the prog scene.
BTW I was very disappointed seeing them live. I could not hear the difference between Gravity Eyelids and She moved on  . Too loud and too much extortion, and the vocals weer not great either. John Wesley was the intro of the evening (just him with his guitar) and that made surely was very ok.
I am suprised by the opinion of Maidenrulez. I do remember having seen a nice picture where Steve Wilson was kissed......
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Lindsay Lohan
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:08 |
 Under wrote:
I am suprised by the opinion of Maidenrulez. I do remember having seen a nice picture where Steve Wilson was kissed...... |
In case you did not get me correctly...what the hell should that be supposed to mean?
Edited by maidenrulez
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lucas
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:19 |
Regarding Porcupine Tree, neither the vocals nor the music grab my attention. So this doesn't let many elements to make me like this band...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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thefalafelking
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Joined: October 28 2005
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:26 |
cobb wrote:
They are moving into mainstream, nothing wrong with that. I don't begrudge anyone trying to make more money out of their chosen profession |
I don't think the're moving into mainstream and surely not to earn more money. If you compare the deadwing album to stupid dream, I guess that the latter is alot more mainstream. Deadwing and In Absentia are totaly unique albums, no-one makes music like this. Steve wilson is indeed a genius, led by his ever evolving taste in music. At this moment I understand he's heavily into metal which leads his creative processes with porcupine tree, as I said before, I don't think that the desire to go mainstream can be taken seriously, but it is true that he wants to attract as many people as possible without doing any compromises.
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Lindsay Lohan
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:27 |
thefalafelking wrote:
cobb wrote:
They are moving into mainstream, nothing wrong with that. I don't begrudge anyone trying to make more money out of their chosen profession |
I don't think the're moving into mainstream and surely not to earn more money. If you compare the deadwing album to stupid dream, I guess that the latter is alot more mainstream. Deadwing and In Absentia are totaly unique albums, no-one makes music like this. Steve wilson is indeed a genius, led by his ever evolving taste in music. At this moment I understand he's heavily into metal which leads his creative processes with porcupine tree, as I said before, I don't think that the desire to go mainstream can be taken seriously, but it is true that he wants to attract as many people as possible without doing any compromises.
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Oh please some of the songs of the In absenthia album sounds like they could have been made by coldplay...
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:31 |
I`m still convinced that they are overratted 
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thefalafelking
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:34 |
s1ipp3ry wrote:
When I think of musical genius I think of ... Peter Gabriel ... Jordan Rudess ... Robert Fripp ... Kerry Livgren ... Roine Stolt ... Neil Peart ... Jim Matheos ... Carl Cadden James ... Trent Gardner ... Neal Morse ...Peter Hammill ... so on , I definatly wouldn`t put anybody member of Porcupine Tree in that same class of musical genius ... Not even close to it ! Thats the trouble with Porcupine Tree theres nothing outstanding about them in any way. Steven Wilson you say ? whatever |
c'mon , if you consider roine stolt, neil morse and kerry livgren (for christ sake) geniuses, where is your mind then? Porcupine tree never made one bad song in my opinion. they are totally unique!! He IS up there with Fripp, Neil Peart and Gabriel. He is (roughly put) a musical encyclopaedia, theoreticaly as wel as practically! I would give a fortune to experience that creativity just for a couple of hours!
BTW any comparison to Coldplay is unjustified. Coldplay is a formula band, repeating tslef time after time, ever becoming duller and duller. Nothing compares to Porcupine Tree, and surely not Coldplay.
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Marc Baum
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:36 |
Sliding into mainstream? I think not. They simply improve their sound and try something new and independent on any new album they release. They simply get better and better from record to record. They are the most important prog band of our days I believe and carry the progressive scene into the future, with a modern edge. Many people seem to be afraid of that, don't understand or simply are deaf. In Absentia ---> Coldplay? Take drugs?
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"All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT
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Lindsay Lohan
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:36 |
thefalafelking wrote:
s1ipp3ry wrote:
When I think of musical genius I think of ... Peter Gabriel ... Jordan Rudess ... Robert Fripp ... Kerry Livgren ... Roine Stolt ... Neil Peart ... Jim Matheos ... Carl Cadden James ... Trent Gardner ... Neal Morse ...Peter Hammill ... so on , I definatly wouldn`t put anybody member of Porcupine Tree in that same class of musical genius ... Not even close to it ! Thats the trouble with Porcupine Tree theres nothing outstanding about them in any way. Steven Wilson you say ? whatever |
c'mon , if you consider roine stolt, neil morse and kerry livgren (for christ sake) geniuses, where is your mind then? Porcupine tree never made one bad song in my opinion. they are totally unique!! He IS up there with Fripp, Neil Peart and Gabriel. He is (roughly put) a musical encyclopaedia, theoreticaly as wel as practically! I would give a fortune to experience that creativity just for a couple of hours!
BTW any comparison to Coldplay is unjustified. Coldplay is a formula band, repeating tslef time after time, ever becoming duller and duller. Nothing compares to Porcupine Tree, and surely not Coldplay.
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Compare a song like Collapse the light into earth with a coldplay song then...
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thefalafelking
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Joined: October 28 2005
Location: Belgium
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:36 |
maidenrulez wrote:
thefalafelking wrote:
cobb wrote:
They are moving into mainstream, nothing wrong with that. I don't begrudge anyone trying to make more money out of their chosen profession |
I don't think the're moving into mainstream and surely not to earn more money. If you compare the deadwing album to stupid dream, I guess that the latter is alot more mainstream. Deadwing and In Absentia are totaly unique albums, no-one makes music like this. Steve wilson is indeed a genius, led by his ever evolving taste in music. At this moment I understand he's heavily into metal which leads his creative processes with porcupine tree, as I said before, I don't think that the desire to go mainstream can be taken seriously, but it is true that he wants to attract as many people as possible without doing any compromises.
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Oh please some of the songs of the In absenthia album sounds like they could have been made by coldplay...
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allright, just name me one InAbsentia song and I'll prove yoyr totally wrong on this matter
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:42 |
thefalafelking wrote:
s1ipp3ry wrote:
When I think of musical genius I think of ... Peter Gabriel ... Jordan Rudess ... Robert Fripp ... Kerry Livgren ... Roine Stolt ... Neil Peart ... Jim Matheos ... Carl Cadden James ... Trent Gardner ... Neal Morse ...Peter Hammill ... so on , I definatly wouldn`t put anybody member of Porcupine Tree in that same class of musical genius ... Not even close to it ! Thats the trouble with Porcupine Tree theres nothing outstanding about them in any way. Steven Wilson you say ? whatever |
c'mon , if you consider roine stolt, neil morse and kerry livgren (for christ sake) geniuses, where is your mind then? Porcupine tree never made one bad song in my opinion. they are totally unique!! He IS up there with Fripp, Neil Peart and Gabriel. He is (roughly put) a musical encyclopaedia, theoreticaly as wel as practically! I would give a fortune to experience that creativity just for a couple of hours!
BTW any comparison to Coldplay is unjustified. Coldplay is a formula band, repeating tslef time after time, ever becoming duller and duller. Nothing compares to Porcupine Tree, and surely not Coldplay.
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Yes after thinking about it I do consider all the above people that I mentioned to have some kind of musical genius for one reason or another ,theres many more I wont bother to name.
My opinion is just my opinion its just a point of view (as well researched as it is) 
Edited by s1ipp3ry
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thefalafelking
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:46 |
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oh, I see now you already named one. Collapse the light into earth is just the closing cut of the album, and functionally seen It's a very strong piece of music. It's not my favourite song by them, but to say that it sounds like Coldplay, just because it's a 'piano ballad' is a little bit ignorant. I also think of In Absentia as a whole, look at the diversity between the songs. Pink Floyd ambience in the sound of muzak and prodigal, nicely orchestrated pieces like.3 and Collapse, an anzing instrumental like Wedding Nails, the brilliance of trains. the beautiful ballad heartattack in a layby and the immensely heavy rock of strip the soul , blackest eyes and the very (and I mean VERY) tight The Creator has a mastertape. Well, porcupine tree have a Masterpiece!!
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thefalafelking
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Joined: October 28 2005
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:47 |
s1ipp3ry wrote:
thefalafelking wrote:
s1ipp3ry wrote:
When I think of musical genius I think of ... Peter Gabriel ... Jordan Rudess ... Robert Fripp ... Kerry Livgren ... Roine Stolt ... Neil Peart ... Jim Matheos ... Carl Cadden James ... Trent Gardner ... Neal Morse ...Peter Hammill ... so on , I definatly wouldn`t put anybody member of Porcupine Tree in that same class of musical genius ... Not even close to it ! Thats the trouble with Porcupine Tree theres nothing outstanding about them in any way. Steven Wilson you say ? whatever |
c'mon , if you consider roine stolt, neil morse and kerry livgren (for christ sake) geniuses, where is your mind then? Porcupine tree never made one bad song in my opinion. they are totally unique!! He IS up there with Fripp, Neil Peart and Gabriel. He is (roughly put) a musical encyclopaedia, theoreticaly as wel as practically! I would give a fortune to experience that creativity just for a couple of hours!
BTW any comparison to Coldplay is unjustified. Coldplay is a formula band, repeating tslef time after time, ever becoming duller and duller. Nothing compares to Porcupine Tree, and surely not Coldplay.
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Yes after thinking about it I do consider all the above mentioned to have some kind of musical genius, my opinion is just that my opinion (as well researched as it is) |
I respect that (at least I try)
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Lindsay Lohan
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 07:52 |
thefalafelking wrote:
oh, I see now you already named one. Collapse the light into earth is just the closing cut of the album, and functionally seen It's a very strong piece of music. It's not my favourite song by them, but to say that it sounds like Coldplay, just because it's a 'piano ballad' is a little bit ignorant. I also think of In Absentia as a whole, look at the diversity between the songs. Pink Floyd ambience in the sound of muzak and prodigal, nicely orchestrated pieces like.3 and Collapse, an anzing instrumental like Wedding Nails, the brilliance of trains. the beautiful ballad heartattack in a layby and the immensely heavy rock of strip the soul , blackest eyes and the very (and I mean VERY) tight The Creator has a mastertape. Well, porcupine tree have a Masterpiece!! |
Well the song collapse the light earth seem to use the same chord progression as coldplay, also the general mood of the song is sad and ambient just like coldplay and also the manner it is sung by sounds very much like coldplay also the later orchestrations is also very closely to that of coldplay and even the way he plays the piano reminds me of coldplay by doing short pauses each time he presses the chords like DUM-SHORT PAUSE-DUM-DUM and then going up a octave...coldplay coldplay...coldplay
Also the rest of the album has poppy songs like Sound of muzak, Trains and blackest eyes which also sound a bit like Tool if you compare them...the rest is just moody and ambient songs that sounds too much like pink floyd...it is like i have heard everything done before by either Tool, coldplay or pink floyd....good music but nothing close to a work of genious
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 08:21 |
This talk about Coldplay seems to be getting a little off the track, However the connection I see is that Coldplay are the type of band you can buy their CD`s from K Mart, perhaps Porcupine Tree are almost Top 40 as well which makes me think ....... they are not true prog at all Porcupine Tree and the word Prog don`t belong in the same sentance !
Edited by s1ipp3ry
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Marc Baum
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 08:26 |
s1ipp3ry wrote:
This talk about Coldplay seems to be getting a little off the track, However the connection I see is that Coldplay are the type of band you can buy their CD`s from K Mart, perhaps Porcupine Tree are almost Top 40 as well which makes me think ....... they are not true prog at all Porcupine Tree and the word Prog don`t belong in the same sentance ! 
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"TRUE PROG" - sounds like a different version of "TRUE METAL" 
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"All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT
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ColonelClaypool
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 08:57 |
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I don't think PT sound anything like Coldplay at all. Coldplay is an incredibly dull band where every single song sounds just like all the others, that description hardly fits PT.
Maiden, you seem to focus on In Absentia a lot, which, I'll agree, have a few "poppy" songs... but it is also their weakest album imo, along with Deadwing. Don't get me wrong, they're still good albums but nowhere near the excellence that is The Sky Moves Sideways, Stupid Dream and Up The Downstair.
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With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.
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cmidkiff
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 09:07 |
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Steve Wilson a genius? I don't think so. At least the albums up to and including "The Sky Moves Sideways" are full of repetitive loops with sounds and solos stuck on top. Hardly any compositional value there, mostly just mood. I'm not a genius, and I could crank out an album like this in about a week. However, it seems that he starts getting more into the song writing on and after "Signify". I've only have thier albums up to Lightbulb Sun, which to me, are better then the earlier stuff. I never did get "In Absentia" or anything after. Perhaps I should if they have continued in that trend.
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cmidkiff
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Saviorts
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 09:50 |
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Judging by the results of this thread Porcupine Tree really isn't overrated, at least in terms of a prog audiance.
I went to one of their shows last year, the sound was mixed perfectly
(a little loud but otherwise perfect). It started off good, but
two things kind of ruined it for me: they we're an hour late and they
had way overpriced merch (the stuff they were selling I could get
cheaper off of amazon). The frontman there, Steve Wilson?
He seemed to have a bit of an ego to him, he was going through these
corny hand motions while he was singing, it looked pretty
embarassing. I do like the In Absentia album but I got kind of
bored halfway through their live set.
They're certainly a good band and a fun listen (at least studio-wise),
though their lyrics are a bit corny at times, but then again, they're a
prog band so I guess that makes sense. They're nothing mind
blowing but if you're looking for modern music with progressive
tendencies they're certainly a fine place to start. Though I
prefer maidenrulez's picks for modern bands better.
Prog rock as we think of it in terms of the classical 70's period will
never happen again, we live in completely different times with a
completely different sensibility of things. Any band that tries
to revive this is doomed. It doesn't mean we can't enjoy what
happened in the past, I just find that most won't enjoy it if it
happened again in the future. I think Porcupine Tree understands
this, it would explain their latest sound.
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For the love of goldens.
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Lindsay Lohan
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Posted: November 10 2005 at 10:08 |
I was saying that i dont think porcupine tree songs on in absentia is not original enough and everything has done before by bands like Tool, Pink Floyd and Coldplay...i say again compare Collapse ithe light into earth with A rush of blood to the head...there really aint that much diffrence
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are porcupine tree overrated ?
