Phil Collins: we decided TONIGHT!

I vote for the clueless oaf option. Whats all this rubbish about not being able to criticise music and musicians? Music is made for people to enjoy by your logic the only people able to comment on music should be the musical elite which is not on at all.

Psychedelia wrote: I vote for the clueless oaf option. Whats all this rubbish about not being able to criticise music and musicians? Music is made for people to enjoy by your logic the only people able to comment on music should be the musical elite which is not on at all.

The Whistler wrote: (SMACK)   Uh, sorry, my hand slipped...   Oh, I mean no offense (well, sorta). Gotta admit, I did kinda like the Tarzan stuff. Wasn't too fond of the pop solo stuff, but ya know, my cuppa tea, what-what. My problem is more with Phil and his general attitude...which was, all yea stone-cast-innotators, the purpose of the poll. Assuming you bothered to read the first post,  which I doubt.

The T wrote: Dude

Dude!

Phil is not completely one or the other. His work with Brand X and in Gabriel-fronted Genesis shut me up at a time when I was only familiar with his atrocious pioneering of adult contemporary. He is a great drummer, but he's turned away from his true skill (he even uses drum machines on his solo albums) to write generally banal lyrics. Still, you gotta laugh when you find out he's right up there with James Brown in terms of popularity with rappers.

progismylife wrote: jalas wrote: Well he doesn't seem very evil.  He seems like a nice guy to me.  Genious is kind of an overstatement judging by later Genesis music.  Other than that, he seems clueless to the fact that there are many fans who want to see the old Genesis come back. Genius is an overstatement? He came up with some great pop songs. That is genius to me. Making pop sound good.

Also he contributed to both early Genesis and Brand X as a writer.  He always said he wasn't a songwriter before, but since Genesis wrote collaboratively and credited the music to everyone, Phil, as far as I'm concerned, did participate in Genesis' writing parts.

Let's see which of the following statements infer a certain bias towards a certain era of said group Genesis, which may actually relate to a certain sect of Genesis fan
1 - Phil Collins seems clueless to the fact that there are many fans who want to see the old Genesis come back. I ask you 2 questions - Did he actually say ANYTHING to indicate this seeming ignorance ? There has been talk for many years & I've yet to read Phil's name being mentioned as not being asked to join in. He WAS the drummer, right.
& question 2 - Is it fair to ask if you are clueless to the fact that there are many fans that want to see the Collins/Banks/Rutherford era Genesis , & would you  claim that Gabriel is clueless in this regard ?
2 - Collins has turned away from his true skill. Like he only has one. Oh wait, he only has one that YOU like or are ready to tolerate. Interesting how others appreciate other "skills" he has. But then, popularity & "pop" music in & of themselves are automatically bad, evil, & responsible for entertaining fans; not you, but then there must be people who have differing tastes from yours. I wonder if they have better things to do than regularly start or post to threads demonizing a musician that they don't like.
3 - The point that I see made a lot lately as a response to these "repetitive" threads is "ENOUGH". The rest of us get it, you don't like him; you loathe the direction that he personally dictated to Banks & Rutherford. How dare they even think to put out music that you hate. There oughta be a law against that, hanging's too good for him, blah blah
. Are you really adding anything new, or is your short term or even long term memory really that bad ? The point is not the criticism, the point is simply that it is & has been the same old rants & raves. You are aware that there are other groups, other music, other things that can be discussed or debated than the fact that Genesis' musical style changed over a career of some 25 - 30 years. Who'd a thought that possible ? Are musicians allowed to do that ?
4 - So for you rabid anti-Phils, pleeeeaaaase take note of the ever increasing posts to these self perpetuating threads that simply say, "Can we talk about something else, ANYTHING else, Please "?

I'll end with a quote from a somewhat intelligent person, name of Albert E. " Apart from the lack of agreement with reality, it is a superb intellectual performance".
Come up with something new - hey , I know; why did Genesis progressively move away from long songs to shorter songs between Trespass through to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway even though I liked them the way they were ? Why did Tony Banks' keyboard sound change during this period even though I liked the sound on Foxtrot best? Why did Peter Gabriel not keep his reverse mohawk haircut, now people don't understand when I do it? Why did they have to improve or clean up the sound production from album to album? Why do certain people get overly angry or need to endlessly & overly emotionally debate the point that THEY DON"T LIKE Phil Collins, or prefer the Gabriel era albums ? We know, sometimes we agree, we just don't see the need for endless repetition (which this post is likely becoming very guilty of , by now)

So if there are some of you for whom this sort of thing is necessary to your very life, please start your own site & argue, or rather agree with each other. Heck, see who can top who in pouring out the most inane invective, or go around in circles debating who can insult, demean or to put it in crude terms, piss on Phil the most. No one's trying to change your minds, & I haven't seen people responding en masse that these threads have done anything to change their opinions if they happened to like to Collins/Banks/Rutherford era Genesis or not. Those who have changed their mind came to it by themselves, by listening to the music & deciding, & this is the probably the part you can't understand, but deciding by themselves what they preferred (which is likely that they want to avoid more anti Phil threads).

For those who've gotten this far, thank you. I do actually prefer most of the Gabriel albums, but I also like a few of the later albums as much; not all but some.

And to repeat a suggestion I've made before in this thread, if you have nothing better to do than repeat & restart these arguments so as to allow yourself to vent your Anti-Phil spleen, please take a walk outside, you may realize there is a REAL world out there

Bonjour les amies de mania, nous sommes fous !
Ne cherchez pas pourquoi,
Pas de chat, pas deux, nous sommes fous !
Put down a little life from a morning cosmic.


Edited by pantacruelgruel - February 14 2007 at 00:13

Clueless Oaf, but we coud use stronger words on him

pantacruelgruel wrote: Let's see which of the following statements infer a certain bias towards a certain era of said group Genesis, which may actually relate to a certain sect of Genesis fan 1 - Phil Collins seems clueless to the fact that there are many fans who want to see the old Genesis come back. I ask you 2 questions - Did he actually say ANYTHING to indicate this seeming ignorance ? There has been talk for many years & I've yet to read Phil's name being mentioned as not being asked to join in. He WAS the drummer, right. & question 2 - Is it fair to ask if you are clueless to the fact that there are many fans that want to see the Collins/Banks/Rutherford era Genesis , & would you  claim that Gabriel is clueless in this regard ? 2 - Collins has turned away from his true skill. Like he only has one. Oh wait, he only has one that YOU like or are ready to tolerate. Interesting how others appreciate other "skills" he has. But then, popularity & "pop" music in & of themselves are automatically bad, evil, & responsible for entertaining fans; not you, but then there must be people who have differing tastes from yours. I wonder if they have better things to do than regularly start or post to threads demonizing a musician that they don't like. 3 - The point that I see made a lot lately as a response to these "repetitive" threads is "ENOUGH". The rest of us get it, you don't like him; you loathe the direction that he personally dictated to Banks & Rutherford. How dare they even think to put out music that you hate. There oughta be a law against that, hanging's too good for him, blah blah . Are you really adding anything new, or is your short term or even long term memory really that bad ? The point is not the criticism, the point is simply that it is & has been the same old rants & raves. You are aware that there are other groups, other music, other things that can be discussed or debated than the fact that Genesis' musical style changed over a career of some 25 - 30 years. Who'd a thought that possible ? Are musicians allowed to do that ? 4 - So for you rabid anti-Phils, pleeeeaaaase take note of the ever increasing posts to these self perpetuating threads that simply say, "Can we talk about something else, ANYTHING else, Please "? I'll end with a quote from a somewhat intelligent person, name of Albert E. " Apart from the lack of agreement with reality, it is a superb intellectual performance". Come up with something new - hey , I know; why did Genesis progressively move away from long songs to shorter songs between Trespass through to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway even though I liked them the way they were ? Why did Tony Banks' keyboard sound change during this period even though I liked the sound on Foxtrot best? Why did Peter Gabriel not keep his reverse mohawk haircut, now people don't understand when I do it? Why did they have to improve or clean up the sound production from album to album? Why do certain people get overly angry or need to endlessly & overly emotionally debate the point that THEY DON"T LIKE Phil Collins, or prefer the Gabriel era albums ? We know, sometimes we agree, we just don't see the need for endless repetition (which this post is likely becoming very guilty of , by now) So if there are some of you for whom this sort of thing is necessary to your very life, please start your own site & argue, or rather agree with each other. Heck, see who can top who in pouring out the most inane invective, or go around in circles debating who can insult, demean or to put it in crude terms, piss on Phil the most. No one's trying to change your minds, & I haven't seen people responding en masse that these threads have done anything to change their opinions if they happened to like to Collins/Banks/Rutherford era Genesis or not. Those who have changed their mind came to it by themselves, by listening to the music & deciding, & this is the probably the part you can't understand, but deciding by themselves what they preferred (which is likely that they want to avoid more anti Phil threads). For those who've gotten this far, thank you. I do actually prefer most of the Gabriel albums, but I also like a few of the later albums as much; not all but some. And to repeat a suggestion I've made before in this thread, if you have nothing better to do than repeat & restart these arguments so as to allow yourself to vent your Anti-Phil spleen, please take a walk outside, you may realize there is a REAL world out there Bonjour les amies de mania, nous sommes fous ! Ne cherchez pas pourquoi, Pas de chat, pas deux, nous sommes fous ! Put down a little life from a morning cosmic.